Self-contradiction-- a strength of SRD's characterizations

[deer of the dawn]

Ramen-- wholesome, fleet of foot, lovers of beauty; yet their weapon of choice-- garrots ("cords") give them a kind of creepy edge.

Giants-- big and unhasty as bedrock, yet their names are almost airy-fairy; and they love laughter and song. They sail, although they must be the most unbuoyant creatures in the Land

Haruchai-- stony faced and impassive, yet they are men of passion and virility.

and so on. One of the things that makes the characters in the Chrons so memorable is the contradictions or paradoxes SRD builds into them. I think it's cool.

[drew]

Ramen-- stony faced and impassive, yet they are men of passion and virility.

Did you mean Haruchai here?

[deer of the dawn]

Umm, yeh. Or,

Ramen-- quick, filling and spicy, yet with almost no redeeming nutritional value.

[Rocksister]

Deer, you are correct, and I had never looked at them that way. And Joan, who apparently wore the pants in the family (she decided the wedding ring color, she decided what to name the baby, she decided to leave town for a while to force TC to start writing again, etc.), ended up being used as a tool by Foul. I still think we'll see something surprising about Joan later on. She has been a central and defining part, in effect if not in presence, of every one of the books. I can't believe she will just continue to be a background character. I often wonder why Foul just didn't control her with the Illearth stone and get it over with. Hmmm....

[deer of the dawn]

Rocksis, I hadn't thought of Joan that way before, but you are right. It also sheds light on Covenant. He probably didn't want to be the kind of person who made big decisions (especially when they involved taking responsibility for others' fates). Even taking on the disciplines in keeping leprosy at bay seemed oppressive to him, robbing him of creativity and joy. The journey is partially to be able to have joy and rigor not be mutually exclusive- another contradiction.

[Rocksister]

Which further adds to my concept of Mr. Donaldson's supreme genius. Every character, if you think about it a little while, has these paradoxes (is that the plural of paradox??) within themselves. Even Vain and Findail have them. I was a little shocked when Findail relieved Vain of his pain when the ur-viles attacked him, and then tried to kill him repeatedly toward the end of WGW. Linden is a cowering, simpering, whining coward in a lot of cases, and in others, she shows extraordinary bravery and willingness to endanger herself. I think SRD's entire background "thread," if you will, to the Chronicles is the theory of paradox and how it manifests itself in the different characters and situations. And Deer, you are mighty perceptive to pick up on that. I've been reading these books over and over for years and had not seen the paradox theme running through them so rampantly. I'll definitely pick up on it now that you have brought it to light. Thank you!!!

[Blackhawk]

Ramen-- wholesome, fleet of foot, lovers of beauty; yet their weapon of choice-- garrots ("cords") give them a kind of creepy edge.

Giants-- big and unhasty as bedrock, yet their names are almost airy-fairy; and they love laughter and song. They sail, although they must be the most unbuoyant creatures in the Land

Haruchai-- stony faced and impassive, yet they are men of passion and virility.

and so on. One of the things that makes the characters in the Chrons so memorable is the contradictions or paradoxes SRD builds into them. I think it's cool.

Which further adds to my concept of Mr. Donaldson's supreme genius. Every character, if you think about it a little while, has these paradoxes (is that the plural of paradox??) within themselves. Even Vain and Findail have them. I was a little shocked when Findail relieved Vain of his pain when the ur-viles attacked him, and then tried to kill him repeatedly toward the end of WGW. Linden is a cowering, simpering, whining coward in a lot of cases, and in others, she shows extraordinary bravery and willingness to endanger herself. I think SRD's entire background "thread," if you will, to the Chronicles is the theory of paradox and how it manifests itself in the different characters and situations. And Deer, you are mighty perceptive to pick up on that. I've been reading these books over and over for years and had not seen the paradox theme running through them so rampantly. I'll definitely pick up on it now that you have brought it to light. Thank you!!!

I think he did an Excellent Job with the characters also... every character that i loved Had some flaw or issue to get over or an inability to get over it in some cases, it made them more realistic and true to life instead of some superhero where the flaws are not shown, even Mhoram and Foamfollower (my favoirite characters) had their flaws but were able to overcome them, those were some of my best moments...Foamfollower being burned clean and Mhorams understanding and ability to keep from Desecrating what he loved, in my eyes Mhoram put Kevin to shame...to bad he never got to wield the staff of law. SRD like the Kemper must build imperfections into his work or the creation he made would be sterile and for me alot less likely to keep my interest. the only character that didnt have any contradicitons was VAIN..he was solid purpose with no thoughts of failure.
though he had feelings....look how the warping of his kind enraged him.

[Rocksister]

It's interesting that you mention Vain; this discussion has had me thinking about him quite a bit. He came into the quest as a gift from Foamfollower, with no explanation of his purpose or of his abilities. He showed zero interest at all in helping anyone when they needed it, but when Linden was in danger, he saved her. He stood by during battles and did nothing, but when confronted with Demondim spawn, he fought them directly with anger. He showed no malefic intent toward Findail, even though the Elohim attempted to kill Vain numerous times. Vain is an enigma, and although I don't necessarily see any contradictions in him, I do see confusing behavior traits. Once you read to the end of WGW, you do see his purpose and how what he did was dependent on his purpose's success. And we didn't even mention Amok. He was the seventh ward (I believe), yet he practically made it impossible for anyone to learn anything from him. So we get to the "unearned knowledge" theme, which kind of in a way goes with the "freedom of choice" theme, and it all boils down to the difference between being used as a tool or deciding yourself. I just get more and more impressed with SRD's skills at weaving everything together, making it contradictory but the same, making it wrong but right. More of those paradoxes that Deer brought up. Cool thread..........

[AjK]

Giants-- big and unhasty as bedrock ... They sail, although they must be the most unbuoyant creatures in the Land

Don't forget that they sail around in rocks. That takes stones.

[Critteranne]

Umm, yeh. Or,

Ramen-- quick, filling and spicy, yet with almost no redeeming nutritional value.

Good, I'm not the only one who keeps thinking of noodles whenever the Ramen show up. They probably wonder why Thomas Covenenat keeps trying to throw them in boiling water.

But at least SRD didn't name a character Allanon. Whenever I see that druid's name, I expect him to start counselling elves about addiction to dream berries or whatever elves get addicted to. (Chocolate?)