The Joan appreciation thread

[Thome]

Hm. I find it odd the way that some people are so vehemently against divorce, even without religious reasons. I don't think it's always a good idea but consider this: along with those remarks you hear against divorce you hardly ever hear a single testimony to the effect of someone going through a huge amount of unpleasantness in marriage and getting through it. I've noticed that rarely those who attack divorce can present such examples. They will reluctantly concede that abuse or adultery are reasons for divorce but even in the latter case there are more websites than you can shake a stick at that talk about recovering from adultery.

The trouble is that those who attack divorce rarely seem to mention what it would be like to live in constant fear or stress, rarely talk about how difficult it is to work with a counselor, rarely talk about emotional suffering or mediocre parents who don't want to learn. Sometimes problems can't be fixed, or at least people don't want to fix them. They say that those who divorce are just cutting and running. Well, survival is a strong instinct, and sometimes it is the right instinct. Joan believes that Thomas has an incurable and communicable disease that is particularly catching for children. She could possibly just have separated, but it seems that she did that and then divorced him.

I just think it's far too easy to judge people when you aren't standing in their shoes. I'd like to hear someone who is against divorce talk about how difficult and unpleasant their marriage is, how there's little sense of hope in it and yet they try, try try because they simply don't believe in divorce.

[Rocksister]

Thome, having gone through two divorces myself, I will respond to your, er, response, if I may. I am a Christian and therefore, divorce is a hard thing to resign yourself to. But hear me in this; I believe even stronger that it is not the correct choice to live with a mistake that affects your health, your safety, your sanity, and most of all, your children. I left my first marriage and took my children with me; I was not, regardless of what my beliefs might have been otherwise, about to live the next forty years of my life being treated the way that I was. The second time was his choice; he wanted material possessions that having a family didn't allow him to have, so he left. He was sorry later, but boo hoo. Anyway, I don't believe we should take marriage lightly, as in "well, I can just get a divorce later." But I also don't agree in treating a person you are married to like a slave or worse. Even God said "Let my people go." Joan's reasons, I think, were misguided, but she was protecting her son, and that was her ONLY thought. Divorce, in her case, was not necessary. She had a knee-jerk reaction and it ruined her life. I'm not sure what I would have done in her "shoes," in her exact circumstances, but with a baby, I know I would have taken it far away regardless of whether I would have asked for a divorce on the grounds of leprosy. Divorce is never a pretty thing, and none of us plan to have one, but some instances exist where it is a blessing. Okay, I'm wearing my bullet proof vest and have an ample supply of hurtloam everyone, so fire away.

[Morning]

I'm also twice divorced (well, technically I'm third-time in a long-term relationship ) and I think there are three major bottomlines to the issue:

- without the child factor involved, there is absolutely no reason that may be strong enough to make people allow themselves down a road of disrespect, spiraling chaos and useless sacrifice of their time and lives

- considering the involvement of kids, either people are rational, lucid and civilized enough (all three; no single of these qualities will suffice) to stay together while providing the kid(s) with a solid and stable, continuous background to support their emotional and intelllectual development, or it might be better not to wait it out until things get out of control

- you can't compare people's behaviours where matters of belief (whether it's religious faith, political alignment, or emotional sway) are concerned. only decisions based on facts and their rational interpretation are possible to discuss.

That said, we all shun the mirror at least once in our lives. But that doesn't mean it's a lesser evil to patronize those whose lower bound to do so happens to be just too low to merit a reasonable doubt.

[[Syl]]

This is an interesting line of conversation, but please bring it back around to the Chronicles or take it to the 'Tank.

[wayfriend]

I, for one, have never thought negative of Joan solely for seeking a divorce.

However, it is Joan herself who does. The author tells us so. And that's what matters here.

[Sharguild]

I can't read Donaldson's mind so I have no actual perspective of why Joan was portrayed as she is but dealing with just the facts presented in the book, I feel Joan lacked significant moral fibre.
I've noticed more than one post, with the comment "if you were in her shoes"...
Well, I was.
My wife got breast cancer when my daughter was 4 years old. It took her three years to die and it was a nightmare straight from Dante's fourth pit for those three years.
Not only did I stick with her, I provided ALL palative care until the end.
During that time, I went through the full gammut of emotions and soul searching. At NO TIME did I even consider cutting out or shipping her to a terminal ward. Our love remained diamond hard the full duration. I did not feel duty bound so much as I trusted no one else to give her the care I could.
My daughter new full well over that time her Momma was getting sicker and when she was seven I explained that Momma is not going to get better and will be going to heaven first to prepare it for us when it is our time ( we are Catholic, but the priests were not all that helpful, religion works great when your seven, not so much when you're 32).
Anyway, all I wished to say was Joan cut and run, even though she KNEW Covenant had dry leprosy in remission.
For that, zero points. I consider her a self serving coward.

note: PLEASE, no "I'm sorries". I've dealt with my past, my daughter is now 26 married and has a daughter herself. We have a bond most families dream about.

[Seareach]

Thanks for sharing, Sharguild.

And cool thread everyone. Just stumbled on it.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Joan deals with the issue by handling it the exact way Covenant handles his.