Soooo.. Joan vs Linden maybe???

[ninjaboy]

I been thinking..

In the first 2 books, it's accepted that both Joan and Linden are present in the land.. Not that we get to see much of Joan.. But she is there, wielding her own White Gold ring, creating the Ceasures and being controlled by Turiya..

And now TC is in the land. And we all know TC and Linden had a thing.. If I'd been there I would've been like 'awesome'.. But do you think that if TC knows his wife is in the Land he's not gunna try and save her?

In fact Linden's kid and Joan have a lot in common. No-one knows whether the healing powers of the land can heal his Autism or her Insanity.. And Jeremiah's got him one of those Croyels,, Joan's got a Raver... Neither are blood relations of those who love them.. And judging by the book Jeremiah's dead in the real world.. What of Joan?

And what if TC has to choose between them? And what if Joan recovers? would she blow LA away with the white magic for screwing TC? Would she bring her wrath upon him? Or would they all get on.. and get it on (it's getting hot in here.. What's that, Liand? You've come to clean the pool).

And Fangthane knows how to hurt TC the most - by giving him back stuff that's broken.

[ff7hero]

And judging by the book Jeremiah's dead in the real world.. What of Joan?

I don't know about the rest of the post, but I seem to recall Joan getting disintegrated by a bolt of lightning in the Real World, so if there's a candidate for most obviously dead, I think it would be her.[/quote]

[Ur Dead]

Joan is toast. Foul assigned Turiya to keep her in that mental state. Foul knows that his raver can't fully control Joan and neither can't Foul. Otherise Foul would have taken over Joan and claimed her White Gold for himself. Joan Ceasures arn't damaging the Arch as Foul hopes, so they are for Foul's secondary plans. (like removing Anele from his own time)

Jeremiah (from the looks of it) is controlled by the croyel. But unlike the last two we have been introduced to, I not sure that this is a bonding that croyels need to make it perament. Jerry is a unwilling victim. The croyel lexicon (by Findail) saids that once the croyel attaches itself to a willing associate then that being is lost. Also it looks now like croyels are the real mind behind the fixture. (so to say) Their ability to scheme and plan for their own "self interests" follows a defied pattern.(look at the other two on how they "operated", it look like somebody was pulling their strings. maybe Foul? - it might have been Foul who was the one who placed the bane(Croyels) at the creation of the world)
They should have the ability to aquire the knowledge and ability of the host along with the ability to enhance existing abilitiesor have their own unique type of power/lore.

The only known way to destroy a croyel is to kill it along with the host.
But like said, Jerry is an unwilling or an unknowing host. Maybe that is why Linden saw her son with a croyel piggybacked instead of being a physical part of the body. There may be a way to seperate the two but the costs migh tprove disaterious. Jeremiah was a normal healthy boy at age 5. It was after the events at Haven farm that he was declared austic. but it may be more a submerged personallty than true case of Autism.

[IrrationalSanity]

Maybe that is why Linden saw her son with a croyel piggybacked instead of being a physical part of the body. There may be a way to seperate the two but the costs migh tprove disaterious. Jeremiah was a normal healthy boy at age 5. It was after the events at Haven farm that he was declared austic. but it may be more a submerged personallty than true case of Autism.

I'm sure more of Jerry's story is coming.

But as far as the Croyel, the Kemper's manifested as his "Son". Killing the croyel killed him because he had already far outlived his natural life and the bugger was the only thing sustaining him.

The Agule (sp) appeared "extra large" from a distance, but it could very well also have been two separate beings. They were fighting the Augle anyway, so Hamako's way of attacking it didn't need to consider protecting the host.

Chances are, the Croyel is going to disengage and leave Jerimiah relatively intact (as much as anyone in one of SRD's stories).

[ninjaboy]

thanks for the info about Joan, ff7hero.. There are so many characters in the stories I sometimes forget how each of them dies... So Joan's definately dead then, that's probably for the best.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to how it apeared the Croyel was being 'piggybacked' by Jeremiah.. Perhaps that's how Kasreyn or the Arguleh would have looked if someone used the Power of Command and said 'show me the truth' to either of those aforementioned Croyels. The Croyels use their magics to distort the truth of their appearance, I think that's been well established.

As to whether you can remove a Croyel from it's victim I"m not sure.. No-one in the land they've encountered seems to consider it much of a possibility.. However there may a way for either an Insequent or Elohim to do it. Possibly. We don't know much about Croyels.. And is there a possibility the Ur-Vile's Shackles could be for the Croyels???

I would expect it would be possible for a raver to leave it's host without the host being killed.. I'm sure someone would be able to coerce them out with the White Gold.. If they knew how to use it.. And then maybe there is an Insequent or Elohim or even the emondim may have knowledge of how to help.

But I highly doubt that a Croyel would just 'disengage' Jeremiah and leave him relatively intact.. To me that sounds in it's like a work of fiction below the levels of which SD would write.

[IrrationalSanity]

But I highly doubt that a Croyel would just 'disengage' Jeremiah and leave him relatively intact.. To me that sounds in it's like a work of fiction below the levels of which SD would write.

Did I say that it would do so voluntarily? Perhaps I mis-spoke on that. I should have said "would be disengaged" from him. And just how intact a kid who's been under the influence of the critter for most of his life could be, well, again I did make it relative to other SRD characters...

[ninjaboy]

IT just seems to me that Foul is going to try make Covenant try choose between Joan and Linden.. And we know Ravers can voluntarily leave their hosts (remeber Triock) and I was wondering who you would think TC'd choose if he had to make the choice?

[ff7hero]

IT just seems to me that Foul is going to try make Covenant try choose between Joan and Linden.. And we know Ravers can voluntarily leave their hosts (remeber Triock) and I was wondering who you would think TC'd choose if he had to make the choice?

That's easy, he'd choose to save them both.

[Zenlunatic]

IT just seems to me that Foul is going to try make Covenant try choose between Joan and Linden.. And we know Ravers can voluntarily leave their hosts (remeber Triock) and I was wondering who you would think TC'd choose if he had to make the choice?

If I had to guess I'd say he'd choose Joan, ex-wife, kid, leper guilt, all that...would Linden choose TC or Jeremiah?

[rdhopeca]

since Joan is already dead in the real world, I don't see this playing out this way...

[Zenlunatic]

Well, they're ALL dead in the real world (or close to it): Covenent (experienced dead guy), Joan (zapped), Roger (shot), Jeremiah (shot), and Linden (shot)...so somethings got to give...maybe the last chapter will be from the Creator's point of view...