Staff of Law

[Borric]

Is there only one Staff of Law? (apologies if this has already been discussed as I’m here here)

By that I mean, Lindens staff will become Bereks staff.
All she has to do is give it to Berek by going back in time at some point.
We see Lindens staff becoming more and more like the original as times goes by.

Why did the Theomach really stop roger going back to the time of Damelon on there trip to Melenkurion Skyweir?. We where lead to believe it was because Damelon could sense them in some way.
Would it not be more logical to assume the real reason was you cant have the same staff in two places at once? (as Damelon carried the Staff of Law at that time.)

The staffs construction required a blend of Vain and Findall to produce.
Can we really believe Berek made one from a branch of the One Tree as we are told?.
(TC didn’t find it that simple in the second chronicles)
We already know from Lindens visits to the past that Bereks story of the land educating him in the ways of earthpower are a bit thin on the ground.
And we see it was actually the Theomach who instructed Berek.
So I don’t feel we can put much credence in the story of the original staffs construction.

Am I onto something here?

[lurch]

..i can only suggest to think of the issue this way: Has your perception of Justice, your sense of what is right and wrong,,been the same through out all of your life? Each of us has our own Staff of Law.

No, there are more than one Staff of Law.
No, the meeting of two Staffs of Law, according to Theomach..will bring down the Arch of Time..Something His Foulness was planning for or at least Roger was attempting.

For now, we can only accept what we have been told. There seems very little to base any speculation on the idea that Berek formed his Staff of Law on anymore than the branch of the One Tree. Seems to me..any more complicated than that would muddy the metaphor. Theomach, and the rest of the Insequents . work for me as metaphors for " Muses". So it works that Theomach " guides"Berek into and thru the " Lore".

I find it fascinating that Linden has charred her Staff of Law to almost ashes at the end of " Lest You Prove Unable To Serve Me"..a definite change there in her Staff of Law.

[wayfriend]

I don't think it's likely the two staves are really the same one in a time loop.

On one level, clearly someone cut a branch from the One Tree before Covenant and Linden arrived. What was that, if not the first Staff of Law?

And we have to ask, what do Berek and the Theomach do at the Isle of the One Tree, then? Why does Berek go there? This creates a whole new tangle of discrepencies that need more backstory to explain.

On a higher level, it takes away (again) from Berek's accomplishments. And the tales that the Creator guided his hand to fashion the Staff become lies. If the Lord's lore is founded on lies, it is rotten in its core.

My gut instinct is that we aren't going to see Berek again. Maybe Kevin. Maybe Loric. But not Berek.

[AjK]

On one level, clearly someone cut a branch from the One Tree before Covenant and Linden arrived. What was that, if not the first Staff of Law?

This was the first point that came into my head as well. If that wasn't the staff, SRD has some splainin' to do.

Also, sincere greetings and welcome to The Watch, Borric! Feel free to come over here kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3880 and introduce yourself!

[HYNYN]

As I read it, The Forestal examined Linden's Staff and deemed it incomplete... The Forestal is a remnant of the Law when the Land was created. All he did was take the Earthpower Imbued staff and placed runes of power upon it. Not necessarily to limit it's power, but to give it the structure of Law.

[Steve Hurtloam]

This is really an interesting concept.

[wayfriend]

As I read it, The Forestal examined Linden's Staff and deemed it incomplete... The Forestal is a remnant of the Law when the Land was created. All he did was take the Earthpower Imbued staff and placed runes of power upon it. Not necessarily to limit it's power, but to give it the structure of Law.

The Staff already had structure. Vain! What it lacked was lore. And that is what the Forestal saw was missing, and added. Lore. The knowledge of how to use power.

[wayfriend]

Donaldson had been hinting at the association of staff runes with lore, and the lack of them on the New Staff, for a long while in the GI.

Now, of course (I mean after "The Second Chronicles") *all* of Kevin's lore has effectively ceased to exist. (Linden's new Staff of Law doesn't even have *runes,* for crying out loud.) And without that lore to give it substance, the seventh word--if anyone chanced to discover it--would be meaningless.
(06/01/2004)

Are you certain that the Staff's runes were an original and necessary part of its creation? If so, perhaps you would care to tell me where you find that information. I can't find any reason to believe that the runes could not have been added later, as Berek acquired more and more lore. Even the iron heels of the Staff could have been added later. I grant that the wood from the One Tree would have to be fashioned in some way. But Berek (over-simplifying here) has been granted a relationship with/knowledge of Earthpower. That and a little health-sense may have been all he needed.
(10/15/2004)

Linden, and then Sunder and Hollian, clearly have the spirit and the heart to use the Staff effectively; but they don't necessarily have the lore, the knowledge, to accomplish everything that the Staff is capable of doing. (The absence of runes on the new Staff is not an accident.)
(12/20/2004)

It’s safe to assume that everything about those iron heels (maybe I should have called them “bands” since Vain was able to get them on his wrists) contributes to their power, or to their role in the Staff’s power: the composition of the iron, the way it was forged, the engraved (or stamped, or cast) symbols/runes/pictographs. But I wouldn’t expect the Giants or the Haruchai to be able to translate the markings. None of those people have ever had access to the Lords’ Lore. (And where did the Lords *get* that Lore? Anyone?) And I certainly wouldn’t expect the *author* to provide a translation, since he tries so hard to avoid being “literal” about magic.

But will the symbols/carvings/whatever *help* Linden? How could they not? They’re important to what the Staff of Law *is*. And (ooh, déjà vu) she *needs* the Staff.
(01/17/2007)

My sense of this is this: the Old Lords added lore to the Staff, through carving runes, in order to make the Staff of Law more effective. To operate more safely, to make it work more in accordance with the Lords' philosophy. They put themselves into it, if you will: their knowledge, experience, passion, and commitment.

Think of it as programming.

The New Staff, without such lore, is more of a wild card. It is unbounded, it can do anything; but also, it is not as effective, it has no programming which suits it to a specific need or a specific philosophy.

Caerroil Wildwood, apparently, observed that Linden would not be able to resurrect Covenant without such lore imbued into the Staff, so he added it. The Staff became effective enough to accomplish the task.

[Usivius]

[Borric]

Good points made here.

I still feel it’s a possibility though.
Someone mentioned the bands around the original staff, and that sparked another thought.
If the two staffs are the same, then what are they?
How about the manacles the Ur viles have constructed?.

I’m probably flogging a dead horse here I know