The 10 Commandments

[Furls Fire]

I agree Menolly.

[Mortice Root]

I like this interpretation, Fist. Thanks for bumping this.

[aliantha]

Yeah, good stuff, Fist.

[rusmeister]

If God is as he is, why does he so fervently demand worship? Don't counter by saying it's not worship, but rather recognition because that is not the case. He demands unquestioning obeyance and discipleship - maybe "my way or the highway". Why does he/it need this, and shouldn't we be questioning the validity of a being that requires this as the central path to enlightenment, if there is such a thing? I've followed Christianity long and hard, have lived in a very Christian environment for many years, studied montheism academically so I'm well familiar with all the counter arguments et al to the worship idea, but have come to the conclusion that the whole concept is fatally flawed: a godhead doesn't need worship or recognition or communion at the price of punishment and if they do, we are on the wrong track and are damned whatever. And for the believers, there's always the eternal cop out of "well that's why it's about God, how could you understand?" Convenient and impossible to argue against of course. God & worship - doesn't make sense.

I'd like to offer a point to consider. generally, Orthodox Christians (at any rate) hold that God doesn't need anything. He's not needy, plain and simple. Everything, including worship, is really for us - to remind us of our place and who we are and Who we depend on, even to breathe.
Speaking of the normal (and ideal) family, what would we say to the person who blows off Mother's Day and says, "We don't need to remember our mothers at all?" I have found, in raising my children, that as I see them, so, it must be, that God sees me. Having children can help one, to a certain extent, to understand God's position (so to speak), just a little.

Similarly, in the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac to God, it was not God that needed to know what Abraham would do. It was Abraham that needed to know it.

Perhaps the concept of worship might make a little more sense from that perspective.

[rusmeister]

Darth, Darth, Darth... What am I going to do with you? You say that you do not believe that any god exists. That's all well and good. I feel the same way. (OK, technically, you say, "No god exists," and I say, "I don't believe any god exists." But either way, neither of us believes any god exists.) Yet you repeatedly give reasons that make you think a specific interpretation of the Christian God does not exist. Let's forget about how silly it is to even attempt to convince anyone else that there is no god in this manner. If you are able to convince yourself that no god exists by finding flaw with one particular set of beliefs, then your beliefs are as rooted in logic and science as those who believe the things you are arguing against. That is, not at all.

So let me try this. Since you have brought up the 10 Commandments a couple times that I've noticed, here's the interpretation given in Neale Donald Walsch's Conversations with God. I think this book is a phenomenal melding of some popular religions and philosophies (Christianity, Hinduism, and Taoism, to name a few), logic, and beauty. Sure, that's just my opinion. But you feel much the same about Tracie, and her faith, as I do. Keep her in mind as you read the blue, and answer my question at the end.

I have created you – blessed you – in the image and likeness of Me. And I have made certain promises and commitments to you. I have told you, in plain language, how it will be with you when you become as one with Me.

You are, as Moses was, an earnest seeker. Moses too, as do you now, stood before Me, begging for answers. “Oh, God of My Fathers,” he called. “God of my God, deign to show me. Give me a sign, that I may tell my people! How can we know that we are chosen?”

And I came to Moses, even as I have come to you now, with a divine covenant – an everlasting promise – a sure and certain commitment. “How can I be sure?” Moses asked plaintively. “Because I have told you so,” I said. “You have the Word of God.”

And the Word of God was not a commandment, but a covenant. These, then, are the…

TEN COMMITMENTS

You shall know that you have taken the path to God, and you shall know that you have found God, for there will be these signs, these indications, these changes in you:

1. You shall love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul. And there shall be no other God set before Me. No longer will you worship human love, or success, money, or power, nor any symbol thereof. You will set aside these things as a child sets aside toys. Not because they are unworthy, but because you have outgrown them.

And you shall know you have taken the path to God because:

2. You shall not use the name of God in vain. Nor will you call upon Me for frivolous things. You will understand the power of words, and of thoughts, and you would not think of invoking the name of God in an ungodly manner. You shall not use My name in vain because you cannot. For My name – the Great “I Am” – is never used in vain (that is, without result), nor can it ever be. And when you have found God, you shall know this.

And, I shall give you these other signs as well:

3. You shall remember to keep a day for Me, and you shall call it holy. This, so that you do not long stay in your illusion, but cause yourself to remember who and what you are. And then shall you soon call every day the Sabbath, and every moment holy.

4. You shall honor your mother and your father – and you will know you are the Son of God when you honor your Father/Mother God in all that you say or do or think. And even as you so honor the Mother/Father God, and your father and mother on Earth (for they have given you life), so, too, will you honor everyone.

5. You know you have found God when you observe that you will not murder (that is, willfully kill, without cause). For while you will understand that you cannot end another’s life in any event (all life is eternal), you will not choose to terminate any particular incarnation, nor change any life energy from one form to another, without the most sacred justification. Your new reverence for life will cause you to honor all life forms – including plants, trees and animals – and to impact them only when it is for the highest good.

And these other signs will I send you also, that you may know you are on the path:

6. You will not defile the purity of love with dishonesty or deceit, for this is adulterous. I promise you, when you have found God, you shall not commit this adultery.

7. You will not take a thing that is not your own, nor cheat, nor connive, nor harm another to have any thing, for this would be to steal. I promise you, when you have found God, you shall not steal.

Nor shall you…

8. Say a thing that is not true, and thus bear false witness.

Nor shall you…

9. Covet your neighbor’s spouse, for why would you want your neighbor’s spouse when you know all others are your spouse?

10. Covet your neighbor’s goods, for why would you want your neighbor’s goods when you know that all goods belong to the world?

You will know that you have found the path to God when you see these signs. For I promise that no one who truly seeks God shall any longer do these things. It would be impossible to continue such behaviors.

These are your freedoms, not your restrictions. These are my commitments, not my commandments. For God does not order about what God has created – God merely tells God’s children: this is how you will know that you are coming home.

Now tell me, Darth... Is Tracie afraid of going to Hell? Does she follow God's commandments because she is afraid of the punishment she'll get if she does not follow them? Or does she feel the greatest joy imaginable, which makes the thought of not living as Walsch describes a laughable notion?

Hey Fist, just a quick note on the text. #6 (adultery) changes the meaning of the Commandment altogether. The other ones add things in places, but that one just goes totally off-base. I can speculate on why that is - I think it's obvious - but just wanted to point that out.

[Cybrweez]

Hey rus, good point about our relationship w/children. Its applicable on so many levels, the problem is, we don't see ourselves as children, we smarter than that.

I was debating start a thread about Abraham and Isaac on Sunday, but didn't. Maybe its worth it?