FR Part 2, Chapter 5 - Departure from Revelstone

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Mortice Root
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FR Part 2, Chapter 5 - Departure from Revelstone

Post by Mortice Root »

Section 1

Linden, Stave and the Humbled walk back to Revelstone, and right away we are introduced to one of the themes of this first section – guilt. Specifically, Linden’s guilt in “wasting” the Mahdoubt’s life. She hears echoes of the Mahdoubt’s insane giggling throughout this section. Here, she also asks Stave’s permission to heal him for the first time. Also out of guilt for her former actions towards him? Stave urges her to rest, but she decides to visit the Hall of Gifts instead. Her focus is on Honniscrave’s cairn. Both as a reminder of victories that had been achieved, and of sacrifices that had been made. Possibly also as a way to subsume her current pain in the memory of old pain and loss – to hope that this new loss, that of the Mahdoubt, may be given meaning just as Honniscrave’s loss had been with the rending of the Raver. She is intimidated by the magnitude of what Honniscrave accomplished. Knowing the possession of a Raver as she did, the ability to hold Sheol, to prevent his escape, as Honniscrave did, is daunting to her.

While discussing seemingly tangential matters with Stave, Linden becomes interested in the suru-pa-maerl sculpture. Studying it up close, it makes no sense, but as she steps back, she is able to see its overall structure and beauty. Is this a commentary on how she is approaching her dilemma in the Land? Essentially not seeing the forest for the trees? Has she been so focused on individual steps that she has missed a larger picture?

Here we come to what appears to be a genuine authorial “oops” (admitted to in the GI, I believe).

“The first summoning was performed by the Cavewight Drool Rockworm at Corruption’s bidding. The second, by High Lord Elena. The third, by High Lord Mhoram. In each such call, the necessary power was drawn from the Staff of Law.”
Of course, Mhoram’s summoning at the start of TPTP was done without the Staff, which was in the possession of dead Elena at that time. As is stands, I think this is the only actual “oops” I am aware of in the Chrons – so we can probably let it slide…. ;)

Stave goes on to discuss how the next summoning of TC was accomplished with lomillialor . Given that Liand has “rediscovered” orcrest , is this a hint that the high wood may be rediscovered as well?

Linden goes on to ponder the “necessity of freedom” a theme revisited from the 2nd Chrons. Essentially she wonders if TC could only defeat Foul by surrendering because he had already sacrificed himself to save Joan. Stave gives a very succinct answer to this. He says:

“I deem that it is not so. The Unbeliever’s surrender was his own, coerced by love and his own nature, not by Corruption’s might. Sacrificing himself, he did not sacrifice his freedom. Rather his submission was an expression of strength freely wielded. Had he been fettered by his surrender in your world, Corruption’s many efforts to mislead and compel him would have been needless.”
Certainly there are echoes here of Brinn’s conflict with ak-Haru in TOT (and also of The Killing Stroke, outside the Chrons).

God, she needed Covenant! His unflinching acceptance might have enabled her to envision a path which was not laid out by wrath and bitterness. Honniscrave’s cairn counseled sacrifice – but it was not enough. Gallows Howe made more sense to her.
The cairn vs. the Howe; self-sacrifice vs. unforgiving slaughter. A very nice comparison of images here.

Finally, after dancing around her central concern with Stave, Linden voices it. She is afraid that Jeremiah has sold himself to Foul, that he entered into the bond with the croyel willingly. The fact that Mahdoubt felt this may be the case increases her fear. However, Stave points out that Jeremiah may have remained true to himself. Linden rethinks her fear – Foul certainly had marked Jeremiah, and Foul is under the impression that marking connotes ownership. But Foul has been proven wrong before. Maybe the relationship with the croyel was not a willing one.

Linden chooses to believe that Jeremiah “ ‘has the right’ every child’s right ‘to be himself.’” To this, Stave replies with the shocking statement that this is the way he would speak about his own sons, even though they sided with the Masters against him. Stave’s sons are with the Masters? Hmmm, maybe they’re people we’ve already met….. (I’m fairly sure that this was mentioned in one the FR forums, so I can’t take credit for this…. But for the life of me, I can’t find who voiced the idea first.)

A thought reading through this section – there are certainly similarities between two of the main focuses in this portion; Honniscrave and Jeremiah. By Raver or by croyel, both have been possessed. Honniscrave’s was a voluntary possession, a sacrifice that he made while remaining himself. Perhaps the conclusion we may draw is that Jeremiah’s possession is also a sacrifice of sorts – or that he too, has remained himself.


Section 2

This is essentially a brief interlude section, where the companions all regroup. Liand and Pahni appear to have a thing going…. ;) The other major piece here is the revelation that the orcrest not only can induce sanity in Anele, and counter Kevin’s Dirt, but also possibly produce spiritual healing, and also that it may be able to change the weather, though that may cause destruction of the stone.

(aside: and now after typing about Liand and Pahni followed by s**ual healing I’ve got Marvin Gaye stuck in my head…..LOL. It’s late. Sorry….:))

Section 3

This section is all about confrontations and challenges. The verbal confrontation between Linden and Handir, the physical one between Stave and the Humbled, and the challenge of the Ranyhyn’s response to the call.

Linden and her companions go to the forehall of Revelstone, only to be denied exit by Handir, which was Linden had expected. Handir states that neither Anele, nor Liand (now that he has orcrest ) can be allowed to leave. More importantly, Linden is stronger, and the fact that the Masters had been misled by Roger’s glamour makes them concerned that they can be misled again. Handir states:

“Yet the state in which you have returned to us is beyond question. You now resemble the transformed Staff of Law. Darkness fills your heart. Indeed, you are as tinder, awaiting only a spark to achieve destruction. According to your tale, this alteration has been wrought by the Blood of the Earth and your son’s plight. Mayhap you have spoken truly. Yet the threat remains, regardless of its cause.
More than any of your companions, you may not safely roam the Land. You have become an avatar of woe and ire, and all of your deeds will conduce to evil.”
This is, IMO, a pretty fair description of Linden at this point, though the Masters’ opinion must be viewed with the knowledge that they have shown that their mastery is predicated on the prevention of the use of power. It is interesting to compare this statement of Handir’s with the Mahdoubt’s from the previous chapter:

“…That good may be accomplished by evil means defies explication. Yet the Mahdoubt has assured herself that you are equal to such contradictions. Therefore she believes that you must not be turned aside.”
Both the Mahdoubt and the Masters are aware of the changes and the potential danger in Linden, but their responses to her are very different.

And as a last protest, Handir is afraid to let Linden go because he seems to feel that the Harrow would wup her and take the staff and the ring.

Handir then sums up the Masters’ core goal for Linden (and us):

“…We seek only to forestall Desecration. Such evils may be performed only by those who wield power and love the Land and know despair.
The true Thomas Covenant, ur-Lord and Unbeliever, charged us to preserve Revelstone…..”
Once again, we are reminded of how TC’s every action seems to follow the “law of unintended consequences” and how even his well meaning, seemingly benign request had disastrous consequences for the Land.

Now, though, Stave proposes a test of truth through combat, and without giving Handir a chance to respond, the Humbled accept. Mahrtiir also immediately proposes a test concerning the response of the Ranyhyn to Linden’s summons. After an apparent non-verbal discussion between the Humbled and Handir, both Stave’s and Mahrtiir’s challenges are accepted. Handir states:

“It is in my heart, however, that such trials resolve naught….Conceding them, we accept only the hazard of greater uncertainty…..my words will bear no sweet fruit. Rather they will ripen to gall and rue.”
Essentially saying that if Linden wins the trials, the Masters still have their perceived obligation, so that nothing will be resolved. And if, Linden fails in these challenges, she will still attempt to leave – even if she doesn’t, the desecration they try to prevent can just as easily by begun within Revelstone. Here Handir is showing quite a bit more insight that we’ve come to expect from the Masters so far.

As Stave’s combat begins, there are some implications that things may be more personal for Galt at least, than simply defending the Master’s views.

This combat section I found particularly well done. The description of the fighting is very intense, and I convinced myself that I could see some of SRD’s martial arts training coming through. Stave wins, of course, because he can still hear all of the Humbleds’ thoughts, but the Masters, in ostracizing him, have cut him off from the same. This is obvious in retrospect, but was a revelation the first time through.

In response to Mahrtiir cheering his victory, Stave replies that he wasn’t attempting to demonstrate his own worth, but that he did it for Linden,

“ – and to teach my people that they also may exceed themselves, if they elect to make the attempt.”
Is this possibly a presaging of the Master’s realigning their position?

The Masters open the gates to allow the summoning of the Ranyhyn. If the Ranyhyn don’t come, Linden will stay in Revelstone. If they come with 7 horses, it will be a declaration of full support for Linden. If they arrive with more than 7, they are acknowledging that the Master’s concerns have value as well.

As Linden prepares to summon the Ranyhyn she touches the three things most important to her – the Staff, the ring, and Jeremiah’s red car. Is the car just a reminder of Jeremiah, or does it have greater, significance of which we are not aware yet?

Stave summons the Ramen for Linden, and they arrive with ten horses, not seven, at least partially validating the Master’s concerns. Who are the extra three for? Well, we only know four of the Masters by name – Handir and the three Humbled, and while it possible we may get introduced to new characters in the next chapter, it wouldn’t seem likely.

Again quoting Handir:

“Thus, the great horses acknowledge both your intent and your capacity for desecration”
Compared with this from LFB

And he who wields white wild magic gold
Is a paradox
For he is everything and nothing,
Hero and fool,
Potent, helpless –
And with one word of truth or treachery,
He will save or damn the Earth
Because he is mad and sane,
Cold and passionate,
Lost and found.
With the alteration of the pronoun from “he” to “she” these words could now just as easily be used to describe Linden.

(An aside – as I was spell checking before posting, the suggestion that kept coming up for Mahrtiir’s name was “martyr”. Maybe spellcheck is worth something afterall…..;) )
"The plural of antecdotes is not evidence."
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Post by lurch »

I enjoy your dissect Mortice! Everytime i read this chapter i am made to feel really good and positive. This chapter is sooo affirming. Departure From Revelstone..is about Going Forward . I've talked about the 'mystery" of the 2nd section of FR. This chapter we see a molding or shaping ,,a few clues as to the mystery. Linden has gone from near zero, walking dead,,to being shewn the obsidian blackness of her heart and by the end of the first section of this chapter,,to even have doubts about her assumptions of the Jeremiah/Croyel relationship. The parable of Staves's Sons..having or granting the Freedom To Be.. is enriching and brings Linden back to the basic..Trust Yourself. Mahdoubts haunting giggle fades to silence. Go Forward. Linden is Not Afraid. Yes she knows that there will be pain suffering and loss..but the other side of that coin is also possible and probable ,, heck look at what The Hall of Gifts showed her. Going Forward without Fear...Going Forward Free. Fascinating turning the idea on its head as quipped by Mahrtiir .." Gall and Rue are inescapable outcomes of your Mastery" . What a Surreal/Zen jibe delivered oh so delicately correct, turning the Masters own words on them. There's a price to be paid for such great smart ass lines like that tho. And even Stave, the stoic ,earns the Right to lay a good one on them,,all about being free,, going forward without fear in your heart.." to teach my people that they also may exceed themselves, if they elect to make the attempt.." Going forward..again..it seems to me..the " mystery of the 2nd part of FR, isn't a What..but a defining of " How". I'm not so sure that the TC at end of book even sees this. I know almost all of the Lands characters don't and that is why most are in fear and trepidation over Lindens journey to Andelain. That question mark,, which way will Linden go?, is beautiful.
If she withdrew from exaltation, she would be forced to think- And every thought led to fear and contradictions; to dilemmas for which she was unprepared.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

I love the 2nd half of this chapter, with the confrontation between Stave and the Humbled and also Mahrtiir's challenge.
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Post by wayfriend »

Holidays are over; I can get back to work. Apologies for not contributing sooner, MR! You've done a really fine job here.

:!!!: Right at the beginning, we have
The walk back to Lord's Keep seemed unnaturally long to Linden. She had gone farther from herself than she realized.
This is hammering home the idea from the previous chapters. Linden has gone "far from herself". She has stretched herself so far she has lost contact with her core.

:!!!:
Mortice Root wrote:Specifically, Linden’s guilt in “wasting” the Mahdoubt’s life.
Linden certainly felt that she had "wasted her friend's life." But should she really blame herself? I cannot see how she could have forseen the outcome of her action to call for the Mahdoubt's help. And needing help isn't something to feel guilty for -- Linden's pretty much lived with needing help since she came to the Land. So I can see Linden regretting what had happened, regretting her actions. It may be natural to feel guilty, but the Mahdoubt's demise can't be laid at Linden's feet. After all, the Mahdoubt chose how she wanted to end her life.

In at least one way, the Mahdoubt's death was caused by the exigencies of the Insequent -- simply by opposing a fellow Insequent, one fell into death.

Was there another outcome possible that spared the Mahdoubt but which defanged the Harrow? I don't see where.

I think this is worth mentioning because someone's response to Linden at this point may be to find fault here. To think: she's become uncaring; she destroyed the Mahdoubt, shrugged, and moved on. But I don't think she quite deserves that.

:!!!:
Here, she also asks Stave’s permission to heal him for the first time. Also out of guilt for her former actions towards him?

Wait. Stave and Linden both had a growth moment here. Linden asks Stave to heal him, and Stave accepts the healing. These are two people who are successfully growing closer, who are understanding each other better. And Stave ... Stave is becoming something better than the Masters.

:!!!: When they reach the Hall of Gifts, we read
Yet samadhi had not entirely perished. Rather Nom had consumed the fragments of the Raver, achieving a manner of thought and speech which the Sandgorgons had never before possessed.
I think it's intentional that Donaldson here reminds us that Nom "consumed" samadhi. Coming as it does after the previous chapter, in which "consume" plaid such a mysterious part, I don't think that this is gratuitous or coincidental.

In fact, it points us towards an idea of what "consume" might imply. In consuming the Raver, Nom achieved thought and speech. Why? We are left to believe that it was because the Raver could think and speak, and when Nom consumed it, Nom gained the Raver's powers. The Harrow had said, Were I able to consume them, I would have taken their power into myself and become stronger..

:?:
Mortice Root wrote:Linden goes on to ponder the “necessity of freedom” a theme revisited from the 2nd Chrons.
Indeed. She touches on the Necessity of Freedom. However, this train of thought follows hard on her admission that she knows why Roger doesn't want her to go to Andelain -- and what she would do there. And her question about how many times Covenant was summoned to the Land. And she talks about "Foul's Mistake".
"But when Covenant and I came here together, we were summoned by Lord Foul. Back then, I didn't wonder about that. But now I think he made a mistake. It may have been his biggest mistake." Like Covenant before her, Linden had been freed when her summoner was defeated. "He tied our lives to his.

"That's why he used Joan this time. Roger's mother."
He tied our lives to his. The summoner's life is tied to whom they summon. This gives arise to the rebound effect, that when the summoner dies, the summoned is returned. But it may also have other profound effects, effects which we surely will explore. After all, all that mechanization to summon Linden through Joan is for a reason! As Donaldson said in the GI, "He made that mistake once already: he isn’t likely to make it again."

So when you put this chain of thought together -- Andelain, the krill, Roger's fear, summoning Covenant, the Necessity of Freedom, what I think we can conclude is that here, at this time, she knows what she is going to do in Andelain.

She knows, and she's concerned if its the right thing to do. That's what all of this discussion with Stave is really about. Despite Stave's suredness that it is about Jeremiah.
Spoiler
Particularly, she's wondering if Covenant will be free, and she's wondering how her life will be tied to Covenant's. And she's wondering if Foul has a claim on Covenant. And if the orcrest Test of Truth can help her discover if it is so.
:!!!: Regarding sons,
Mortice Root wrote:To this, Stave replies with the shocking statement that this is the way he would speak about his own sons, even though they sided with the Masters against him. Stave’s sons are with the Masters? Hmmm, maybe they’re people we’ve already met...
Hey? Is Stave married? Uh oh ... :)

:?: On the subject of sacrifice
In its own way, Honninscrave's end daunted her as profoundly as Covenant's surrender to Lord Foul. She would not hesitate to trade her life for Jeremiah's. Of course. He was her son: she had adopted him freely. But for that very reason, her willingness to die for him seemed trivial compared to Honninscrave's self-expenditure, and to Covenant's.
This section bothered me a bit. I remember profoundly how Linden could not "get" Hamako's self-sacrificing death. About why it wasn't the same as her father committing suicide. Now, when I read this, I have to wonder if she still doesn't get it. She know's she would die for her child, but she doesn't think that's the same thing. Which, I feel, demonstrates the lack of understanding, for they are the same thing. Giving your life to gain something of worth.

Before, this lack of understanding almost kept Covenant from the Banefire, almost kept him from giving Foul his ring. In the end, Linden's trust in Covenant prevailed -- but she still, perhaps, did not understand.

:!!!: Regarding Stave's victory
Mortice Root wrote:In response to Mahrtiir cheering his victory, Stave replies that he wasn’t attempting to demonstrate his own worth, but that he did it for Linden,
“ – and to teach my people that they also may exceed themselves, if they elect to make the attempt.”
I think that this victory for Stave is indeed a Test of Truth. I think that he has demonstrated that he is on a path of growth and understanding that makes him superior to the Masters. That perhaps he will discover the final answer for the Haruchai before the end. The Test of Truth shows that he is on the true path, and the Masters are not.
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