BEER

[Mortice Root]

So to report on the other two brews.....

A few nights ago I tried #43, the double IPA.

(As an aside, the whole time I was drinking it I had the lyric "Draw another goblet......from the cask of '43...." running through my head. Malik is probably enough of a Rush fan to get the reference.... )

IPAs have never been my favortie style of brew, but I did enjoy this one. Nice carmel color, good head and a very strong hop aroma. I almost thought I tasted a hint of pine in the beer, though that may just have been hops, hops and more hops. I've never had an IPA that I thought was out-of-this-world great, but that's just me. This one was pretty darn good.

Tonight I opened up #44, the rye IPA. Contratry to what Malik had told me, I actually did get a pretty good head off of this one (guess I'm just lucky that way.... ). I didn't get too much of a smell from this, but I really did like the tatse. I'm not sure I would have been able to identify it as "rye" if I hadnt known, but knowing it was rye, I did catch that flavor. It also was a very dry brew, which I like.

All in all, though, all three of these were very, very good, and again, something you should be proud of, Malik. When someone tells me that they use their own recipie for anything, (let alone beer) I'm always a little hesitant to be honest with my feedback, for fear of offending. I realize that you're probably a guy who can handle honesty anyway, but there really isn't any need for me to sugar-coat this. All three were very good, and I am absolutely impressed with your ability. Thank you, so much, for sharing.

[Zarathustra]

Fantastic! Thanks for the feedback. Yes, some of the rye IPAs have started carbonating nicely. They are very dry. I was proud of that, since getting a beer to ferment out completely is one of the biggest challenges in homebrewing. I've brewed too many batches that were too thick and sweet.

BTW, your package arrived today. I'm sipping on the Uff-da right now. This is an amazing brew! It tastes very fresh, very grainy. The malt taste is so prominent, it's almost chewy! Yum. The creamy tan head is a thing of beauty. I've always wanted to try New Glarus, but I don't believe they distribute outside Wisconsin. Their reputation, however, has spread worldwide. I'm very grateful for the hook-up! Thanks a lot. That was fun.

(As an aside, the whole time I was drinking it I had the lyric "Draw another goblet......from the cask of '43...." running through my head. Malik is probably enough of a Rush fan to get the reference.... )

I love Caress of Steel, but I haven't listened to it in a while. Fountain of Lamneth?

[Vraith]

I've only read the first and last pages of this thread, (if you people didn't talk so much, the forums wouldn't be quite so daunting for us newbies) so I don't know if this has come up...if not maybe one of you home-brewers would like to try it out. Now, normally I prefer the darkest of the dark brews (one of my favorites was at a little place just outside Darmstadt Germany, the name of which roughly translates as "Black Ice storm" or "Black Blizzard" Made Guinness look slightly tan in comparison...and when I wobbled a little after my second was informed 18% alc. ouch.)
On the other hand, there's something to be said for the other end of the spectrum. I stumbled into a situation where I was playing soccer every Sunday with a bunch of locals (a funny story in itself...I was the only American that played with them) These guys introduced me to a filtered Weizen beer (almost sprite-soda clear, and nearly the same fizz, though the head was firmer) From what I could decipher (my German was only at the level of bar German...or Pillow German, my buddy Dieter decided when I successfully picked up a waitress who spoke no english) My understanding was that Weizen beers are normally served with a thick sweet syrup mixed in (raspberry, I think, most commonly) but we drank it mixed 1/2 and 1/2 with mineral water and lemon twist while playing (kept us hydrated, and yet a mild, mellow, happy buzz) and then without the water after. This was without a doubt the best "damn, it's really hot out" beverage ever. Had actual flavor despite its lightness, but no heavy aftertaste camping on the tongue, and no heavy belly feeling.
Just something I thought you dedicated home-brewers might like to play with, if you can filter. (of course, there are unfiltered versions too, but they don't have the bounciness, so aren't quite as hot-weather friendly)
J----------

[Menolly]

Nice!!

Welcome to The Galley, Jeff.

[Zarathustra]

I successfully picked up a waitress who spoke no english

That's probably the most impressive thing I've ever read on this site.

I believe I'm the only home brewer here. I'm a beer fanatic. I've read about the filtered weizen with the fruit syrup, but never tried it. And no, I don't have any way to filter my beer. I don't know of any homebrewer who filters, because it's considered to make an inferior product. One of the reasons to make homebrew in the first place is to have unfiltered, unpasteurized beer. Filtering makes it crystal clear, but it removes yeast and other compounds that strip a beer of flavor. (Pasteurization improves shelf life, but it, too, can harm the flavor.)

[Vraith]

I successfully picked up a waitress who spoke no english

That's probably the most impressive thing I've ever read on this site.

you'd be even more impressed if you saw here...damn.

I believe I'm the only home brewer here. I'm a beer fanatic.

oh...I was quick-scanning and it looked like you were trading home-brews with people...my mistake. I'm a fanatic drinker (hmmm..don't take that the wrong way) and I'm hoping to become a brewer...right now a bunch of friends from my MA school have been beer-sparing for the best for a long time. I want to know enough to avoid beginner mistakes before I start, I only want to make advanced mistakes.

I've read about the filtered weizen with the fruit syrup, but never tried it.

you might like it as a drink, if you like buttery nipples and all those conconctions, but you wouldn't like it as BEER, if you know what I mean.

And no, I don't have any way to filter my beer. I don't know of any homebrewer who filters, because it's considered to make an inferior product.

Yea, and my tastebuds tell me this is true. It's kind of a situation/environment specific beverage. I suggested it because I thought it might be a more tasteful (as in full-of-taste) possibility for a brewer who has friends come around who bring Bud and think they brought beer, and none of my brewer friends will try to make it. (Dammit, can't you take a hint? Make me a custom brew and ship it to me free!) Even unfiltered Weizen is less "weighty" than otherwise-the-same brews. (fully realizing that otherwise-the-same is a shaky-ground statement)

One of the reasons to make homebrew in the first place is to have unfiltered, unpasteurized beer. Filtering makes it crystal clear, but it removes yeast and other compounds that strip a beer of flavor. (Pasteurization improves shelf life, but it, too, can harm the flavor.)

you bet. Milk from the teat! Yummm! (and that's not a joke)
And, in a way, parallel to the problems with wines. The affordable ones all "blend" which equalizes them over the years taste-wise, and on average probably improves them slightly, but also KILLS (at minimum makes prohibitively expensive) truly great wines.

[Mortice Root]

Howdy, Jeff! Those both sound like tasty concoctions..... (as does the waitress.... ) Welcome to the Watch!

Malik wrote

I love Caress of Steel, but I haven't listened to it in a while. Fountain of Lamneth?

Yup, you bet!

Malik wrote

BTW, your package arrived today. I'm sipping on the Uff-da right now. This is an amazing brew! It tastes very fresh, very grainy. The malt taste is so prominent, it's almost chewy! Yum. The creamy tan head is a thing of beauty. I've always wanted to try New Glarus, but I don't believe they distribute outside Wisconsin. Their reputation, however, has spread worldwide. I'm very grateful for the hook-up! Thanks a lot. That was fun.

Glad it got to you. Yeah, I really like the Uff-da as well. Let me know what you think of the other two styles when you get to them.

[Zarathustra]

I liked the Organic Revolution better than the Spotted Cow. There was a crisp hoppy flavor to the OR, whereas the SC seemed a little on the bland side. (That's the problem with drinking increasingly intense beers--it becomes difficult to appreciate the lighter, subtler beers.) The label of SC read, ". . . little hint of corn." I tasted a lot more than a hint, which I felt detracted from the brew. But I did enjoy OR quite a bit. I've never had a pale ale with Hallertau hops. American PAs usually focus on much more assertive, citrus and pine Northwest hops.

I did appreciate that these were unfiltered and naturally carbonated (bottle conditioned). That gave them a freshness that you don't often get in commercial brews.

[Prebe]

I've just blown the froth off a 50$ a litre christmas brew vintage 2007 Belgian trapiste. Never would I pay so much for beer, but I was lucky enough to get it for my 40 years birthday.

It is, well, tasty. But I feel that I could get so much more taste experience in a 50$ a bottle wine.

I'm using some of it to braise pork-cheeks with herbs, onions and carrots. The sauce is extremely promissing.

[Zarathustra]

I've just blown the froth off a 50$ a litre christmas brew vintage 2007 Belgian trapiste. Never would I pay so much for beer, but I was lucky enough to get it for my 40 years birthday.

Wow, that's pricey. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out which Trappist brew set back your benefactor so much. It must be something really special I can't get over here. Chimay Grande Reserve 750 ml go for around $10-$12. Rochefort (my favorite) goes for $5-$6 per 330 ml. We've got Westmalle, Orval, Koningshoeven. I'd really like to try a Westvleteren!

It is, well, tasty. But I feel that I could get so much more taste experience in a 50$ a bottle wine.

I do find it surprising that *any* beer could cost so much (or wine, for that matter), but I've read about extremely small batches of prized brews going for quite a bit, especially aged rarities. While I've never had one so expensive, I think you're paying for rarity, not taste (especially since, for less than a buck per bottle, I can brew stuff better than anything I can buy in a store).

And while I'm no wine connoisseur, I think that beer can be just as complex and flavorful as the best wine. You have to train your palate to appreciate its subtleties, and seek out an extremely wide variety, in order to fully appreciate everything yeast/malt/hops has to offer (I'm not saying you haven't). Many styles have to be sampled right at the source, as fresh as possible--a limitation I don't believe wine faces. Wine travels better. So fewer beer drinkers get to sample the really best examples of particular styles compared to wine drinkers. In addition, wine starts out with a more intense flavor profile than many beers simply because it is a "bigger" drink (having a higher original gravity). Sure, there are beers that get into the wine ABV range, but there are no wines that even attempt the low alcohol range that many delicious, subtle beers achieve (I don't believe). Does anyone even make a 4% wine? If they did, imagine putting that next to a 4% beer . . . it would be night and day. One would taste like watered-down crap, and the other could quite possibly be liquid bliss. In terms of bang for the buck, dollar-per-ABV percentage, beer beats wine hands down. (I know that's a strange way to compare them, but it's the only way I know how to treat such an apple-and-oranges type of comparison.)

I'm using some of it to braise pork-cheeks with herbs, onions and carrots. The sauce is extremely promissing.

Are you yanking my chain, or are you just trying to piss me off??

[Vraith]

I've just blown the froth off a 50$ a litre christmas brew vintage 2007 Belgian trapiste.

Yikes!

(...) go for around $10-$12. Rochefort (my favorite) goes for $5-$6 per 330 ml. We've got Westmalle, Orval, Koningshoeven. I'd really like to try a Westvleteren!

No-one in my area sells this kind of stuff. When I was last in KC a few months ago (and where I will be again for a couple weeks over the holidays, I found a place that had some pretty tasty locals in this range (the Belgian ale I tried was good, but not spectacular..one of the porters was yummy)

a limitation I don't believe wine faces. Wine travels better.

This is sort of true, but highly variable depending (among other things) on whether it's truly vintage, only legally vintage, or not vintage at all. And reds seem to travel better than whites, at least to me. The real experts (I'm not one) say that there is a perfect age for each specific wine of each specific vintage.

(I know that's a strange way to compare them, but it's the only way I know how to treat such an apple-and-oranges type of comparison.)

Now I'm trying to figure out how to compare blondes/brunettes/redheads based on blood ph.

I'm using some of it to braise pork-cheeks with herbs, onions and carrots. The sauce is extremely promissing.

Are you yanking my chain, or are you just trying to piss me off?? [/quote]

I shuddered at this...but on the other hand, I once heard a Chef say "If you wouldn't put a wine on your table, why the hell would you put it in your food?"
J----------------

[Zarathustra]

No-one in my area sells this kind of stuff. When I was last in KC a few months ago (and where I will be again for a couple weeks over the holidays, I found a place that had some pretty tasty locals in this range (the Belgian ale I tried was good, but not spectacular..one of the porters was yummy)

Doesn't Kansas [Edit: or is that Missouri?] have "high alcohol" legal limit for beer? I know that some states won't let you sell beer with ABV over 6%--which eliminates the best Belgians.

The breweries I listed were actual Trappist monasteries. There are only 7 in the world, and they have all been brewing for centuries. That's a long time to perfect a recipe! They know their stuff.

Many North American craft brewers make very good versions of Belgian ale. One of the best examples is a Canadian brewery, Unibroue. All they make are Belgian-styles. A great American brewery for this niche is Ommegang, in New York.

There are also plenty of mediocre examples.

As chance would have it, my current batch is a Belgian IPA, made with the Duval yeast and American hops. It's fruity, spicy, tangy, and very strong. 8.2% ABV. Warms the belly.

[Prebe]

Malik: It WAS a Rochefort. Christmas Cuvée 2007 in 750 ml bottle. 9.2% alcohol. My friend who bought it for me might have been severely cornholed, or he's yanking my crank. I don't know.

As for the cooking, I like to quote one of my favorite chefs: "You can cook bad food with good wine, but you can't cook good food with bad wine". I suspect the same is the case with beer. So cooking with it is NOT waste. Besides, I use less than a third for cooking. Ok?

Anyway, the pork cheeks were beyond divine. It was - quite litterally - the best pork I've EVER had. And I have had my fair share of Sus sp.. Thank god my wife didn't like it, that meant more for me!

Edit: Apparently it was a special christmas edition. I've seen it priced at 30 euros/750 ml, so it's not to far off. This was the best pic I could find (my own digital camera is broken). It's #3 from the left. WITH the fir and the holly.

[Zarathustra]

Prebe, I'm sure that pork was phenomenal. I was just teasing you. I'd love to have joined you for a sample.

I looked online for some prices, and found a 150 cl bottle (magnum) of the Rochefort cuvee for around 43 Euros, which is about 60 dollars, right? That's like about $12 for a "standard" U.S. bottle, the 12 ounce . . . which is astronomical. The most I've paid for a 12 ounce was $8 for a World Wide Stout, by Dogfish Head (AMAZING!). But if this was a 750 ml, we're talking around $24/12 oz., which is unbelievable. I'm not doubting your story, I'm just awed that you were fortunate enough to have something so special. Drooling, actually.

[Vraith]

No-one in my area sells this kind of stuff. When I was last in KC [...]
Doesn't Kansas [Edit: or is that Missouri?] have "high alcohol" legal limit for beer? I know that some states won't let you sell beer with ABV over 6%--which eliminates the best Belgians.

I was in the MO part...I think, if I recall correctly, it was in the high 7% range.

The breweries I listed were actual Trappist monasteries.
There are only 7 in the world, and they have all been brewing for centuries. That's a long time to perfect a recipe!

One of my friends makes a tasty brew that he claims is an authentic monastary recipe. Whether it is or not, it's good (my wife buys me a couple cases from him every year for Christmas...2 more days I get to have some)

One of the best examples is a Canadian brewery, Unibroue.

This is available a mere 45 minute drive from me. It's all wineries around here. [there is one bar that actually brew on premesis, and they aren't bad]

J-----------------------------------

[Prebe]

Check out the shot I found in myl last edit Malik.

[Menolly]

OK all.
Opinions wanted, please.

Tonight I am making my annual "special" beef stroganoff, that I make using the planned over standing rib roast from Chr-stmas dinner. The recipe calls for 3/4 cup of beef broth for each pound of beef. I have two and a half pounds left.

Now, I don't have any home made beef stock made, or I would definitely use that. I could run out and get some beef base at Sam's, or some Better than Bouillon, both of which work superbly, but I am considering something else.

I have about 1/4 cup of au jus that I made from the drippings last night with cabernet. And...

...I have about a quart of the beer and butter mixture I use to simmer bratwurst in. We always save it from brat fry to brat fry. It is currently nicely concentrated.

Although I won't hesitate to use the au jus, being beef based, I am hesitating on subbing the rest of the liquid with the beer and butter mixture. It has simmered pork, not beef, and I am already introducing cabernet into the recipe, albeit a tiny amount. Dare I mix the cabernet with the beer?

For some reason my instinct is telling me this will work, and work well. But, what do y'all think?

[Menolly]

*grinning like a madwoman*

It worked.
Even better than my home made beef stock.
Oh man.

So rich...

[Prebe]

I would have guessed it worked too. Glad it actually did.

The reason it works is probably that the bitter compounds of the beer and the acidic compounds of the wine are softened by long time cooking. If you mix them into a sauce directly without much cooking it's gonna be trashcan-time

[Menolly]

Makes sense.

And both the beer and wine made the cubes of rib roast even more tender than the long simmering in the beef stock did.