What's a Bane?

[wayfriend]

... and SRD never asked Lester? I find it hard to believe. I think SRD is being a little Haruchaish here. "We speak only of what we know."

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

It wasn't a riddle, it was a joke.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

What's the joke?

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Instead of calling it something suspenseful like Lord Foul's Bane...

...I made the joke that it might be called, Lord Foul's Insight...

...which is pretty lame and anti-suspenseful...

...but maybe not?

[thewormoftheworld'send]

So when are you going to tell us how many Donaldson fans it takes to screw in a light-bulb? That's the riddle I've been asking about.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Oh. Ummm, I don't know yet...but maybe that's the answer...since I'm one of 'em.

[Vraith]

Oh. Ummm, I don't know yet...but maybe that's the answer...since I'm one of 'em.

Only one...but he has to surpass his Bane and survive the last dark.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

What's the last dark?

[Attest]

However, LFB doesn't make TC out to be some kind of thorn in his side either.

I have to respectfully disagree. A large part of LFB centers around Covenant's rejection of the idea that he has been chosen to defeat Foul and save the Land. ... that he is Lord Foul's bane.

And the Despiser all but says "You are my bane."

"He intends you to be my final foe. He chose, groveler, with a might in your hands such as no mortal has ever held before - chose you to destroy me. "

Actually, that's a damn good point.

This passage...

"He intends you to be my final foe. He chose, groveler, with a might in your hands such as no mortal has ever held before - chose you to destroy me. "

As Wayfriend says, can pretty much be summed up by Lord Foul saying "you were sent to destroy me" or "you are my bane."

It's certainly the most concrete evidence we have.

Too bad he didn't actually say "you are my bane." This isn't made apparent until the very end of the third book. Maybe the first book should have been called "Lord Foul's 47-years-in-the-Future Bane."

He says Covenant was sent to destroy him, what more do you want?

Instead he deliberately plays down Covenants potential to defeat him by naming him a 'groveler.'

Also, a bane doesn't, to my knowledge, have to be instant. It can be something that will kill you- or cause you annoyance or suffering- eventually.

Let's take an imaginary scenario in which an Evil Overlord is told that a child born precisely one week ago will be the one to defeat him. That child is his bane (or one of them.)

Now the said child could take twenty years to grow up and be a threat, maybe twice that, but the whole point is that eventually that person is going to cause his end.

[wayfriend]

Also, a bane doesn't, to my knowledge, have to be instant. It can be something that will kill you- or cause you annoyance or suffering- eventually.

Exactly. It can also be something that is fated to be your demise. Or something that is designed to be your demise. It doesn't need to have demised you yet.

[stonemaybe]

Bane comes from the gaelic word for woman, bean (pronounced 'ban', as in banshee, ban-sidhe, woman of the fairies - evil fairies btw)

'She's the bane of my life' takes on a new meaning, eh?
















actually, i made that up, but it should be true!

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Also, a bane doesn't, to my knowledge, have to be instant. It can be something that will kill you- or cause you annoyance or suffering- eventually.

Exactly. It can also be something that is fated to be your demise. Or something that is designed to be your demise. It doesn't need to have demised you yet.

So the title of LFB is a huge spoiler?

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

If it's a spoiler, then the Ethics note, which I don't think needs to exist because the concept is inherent in the story, is also a spoiler.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

If it's a spoiler, then the Ethics note, which I don't think needs to exist because the concept is inherent in the story, is also a spoiler.

"Ethics note"?

Anyway, the title of the first book can mean anything you want it to mean. All I'm saying is that the illearth stone was mentioned numerous times throughout LFB and played a role when Drool used it to whip the ur-viles into a killing frenzy. As I recall, it was also used to created warped beings. In no way did TC play the role of LF's bane in that book, whatever the Creator's intention may have been.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Ehics note from LFB's beginning.

[Attest]

If it's a spoiler, then the Ethics note, which I don't think needs to exist because the concept is inherent in the story, is also a spoiler.

"Ethics note"?

...you don't remember?

The beggar gives Covenant a paper entitled "The Fundamental Question of Ethics" or something to that note, shortly before his first transition to the Land.
Basically it lays out the premise for the First Chronicles and proposes the question of ethics about whether Covenant's actions are cowardly or pragmatic.

I think that's all in order, it's been a while since I read LFB.

To address another point.

So the title of LFB is a huge spoiler?

No. A spoiler generally has to be something that, well, spoils something.
The fact that people are willing to argue, and the fact that it isn't clear until The Power That Preserves proves it's not so much a spoiler as a suggested scenario.
Moreover, how many times are we reminded in each book that Covenant will "save or damn" the land?
Unless you take a very broad definition, it's hardly a spoiler.

Anyway, the title of the first book can mean anything you want it to mean. All I'm saying is that the illearth stone was mentioned numerous times throughout LFB and played a role when Drool used it to whip the ur-viles into a killing frenzy.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but I believe you are quite wrong. Out of the alternatives this is by far the theory with the less concrete backing. It doesn't make sense to believe.
Even if you want to play that card, the Illearth Stone wasn't Lord Foul's at the time of Lord Foul's Bane, it was Drool's.
It became the property of Foul once Drool was killed, admittedly, Drool was in many respects a cats-paw of Foul but nonetheless it wasn't actually his until some time after Lord Foul's Bane.

Or to further highlight the problem with your theory, for a title object the Illearth Stone has wretchedly few mentions, appearances, and plot importance.
I mean, using the logic you've used I could well claim ur-Viles are Lord Foul's Bane. I won't, because it's illogical, but it's possible.

As I recall, it was also used to created warped beings. In no way did TC play the role of LF's bane in that book, whatever the Creator's intention may have been.

Irrelevant. We've already established that to be a bane Covenant didn't have to play the part of the bane in the same book, he just has to eventually fulfil the role.
The fact that Covenant beat -twice- Foul proves that he was, in fact, Lord Foul's Bane.

To use a much more easy to understand example. If you have cancer, and it'll kill you. You know this. Only thing is, it'll take a while, lets say ten years. Cancer is your bane, it doesn't become your bane when you die ten years onward, it becomes it as soon as it becomes the thing that will kill you.

Imperfect example, I admit, but it illustrates the point.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Like I said, the title LFB can mean anything you want it to mean. The title itself was chosen for its power to sell more books.

Your argument - that the Illearth Stone did not belong to LF in that book so it could not be considered his bane - is contradicted by your own argument that TC is shown to be LF's bane in further novels, and you even cite the Second Chronicles ("The fact that Covenant beat -twice- Foul"), books which were not even dreamed up at the time. The Illearth Stone was also LF's bane in further novels.

There is no answer to the riddle of the title, and I have offered none. It means what you want it to mean, and there are no reasonable arguments to support either side without lapsing into contradiction.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Okay.

SRD wanted to call it, Lord Foul's Ritual, which is about as lame as I can think of, thank goodness for editors.

But, still, Lord Foul's Bane, I still see it meaning:

1- Cov/White Gold
2- Illearth Stone
3- Foul's Plan that the reader and the Lords don't understand
4- Foul's pain and desire to break the arch and why

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Okay.

SRD wanted to call it, Lord Foul's Ritual, which is about as lame as I can think of, thank goodness for editors.

But, still, Lord Foul's Bane, I still see it meaning:

1- Cov/White Gold
2- Illearth Stone
3- Foul's Plan that the reader and the Lords don't understand
4- Foul's pain and desire to break the arch and why

"Bane" can be used to refer to anything. However, how is that word used in the first Chronicles? The following quotes are from LFB. One of them indicates that Drool might be Lord Foul's bane, a thorn in his side for holding onto the Stone. Or it could refer to the Stone that LF covets. Or all of the above.

"And there are banes buried in the deeps of the Earth too potent and terrible for any mortal to control. They would make of the universe a hell forever. But such a bane Drool seeks. He searches for the Illearth Stone. If he becomes its master, there will be woe for low and high alike until Time itself falls."

"But when Kevin's betrayal had brought defeat and Desolation, and the Land had lain under the bane for many generations,"

"And from the light came a putrid emanation, as if the Land were illumined by a bane."

"Seven Wards of ancient Lore
For Land's protection, wall and door:
And one High Lord to wield the Law
To- keep all uncorrupt Earth's Power's core.
Seven Words for ill's despite
Banes for evil's dooming wight:"

"Drool Rockworm has already found his bane -the Illearth Stone or some other deadly evil."

"Buried deep in the Earth through no will or forming of his were banes of destruction, powers virile enough to rip his masterwork into dust."

"But the Questers were on their way toward the bleak, black prospect of Drool Rockworm, crouched like a bane in the catacombs of Mount Thunder."

"Oh, he desires the power of the banes, but his home is in Foul's Creche-not here."

"The buried air seemed to flow over centuries of accumulated filth, vast hordes of unencrypted dead, long abandoned laboratories where banes were made."

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

2nd Noice.