Did TC fail the High Wood test at Soaring Woodhelven?

[Fuzzy_Logic]

Perhaps by trying to do unnecessary violence he violated his own 'oath of peace' and thus was no longer strong enough to sucessfully 'test' Covenant.

The Oath of Peace *never* made anyone more powerful, though. Breaking it should make him more, not less, Earthpowerful, if that were the issue.

[SoulBiter]

I'd have to go back and re-read too but I believe Baradakas tried to strike TC because he fears he's another raver or something and is protecting himself, his woodhelven, and the Land. To me that doesn't violate the Oath.

Whether it had anything to do with it or not, Baradakas thought he had violated his oath of peace. I went back and re-read parts of this and he says a bit later when he is apologizing the TC...

"I was prepared to injure you, and that violation of my Oath of Peace needs reparation. Had you shown yourself to be a servant of the Gray Slayer, it would have been sufficient to capture you.

Perhaps by trying to do unnecessary violence he violated his own 'oath of peace' and thus was no longer strong enough to sucessfully 'test' Covenant.

The Oath of Peace *never* made anyone more powerful, though. Breaking it should make him more, not less, Earthpowerful, if that were the issue.

Its not about it making them more powerful. Perhaps deep down he knew he was violating his Oath and as such was less able to do a 'test of truth'.

[matrixman]

I agree with SoulBiter. Regardless of whatever "truth" was revealed by the test, it was still wrong of Baradakas to suddenly turn caveman on Covenant. If you want to be lawyerly about it, then I suppose Baradakas did not legally violate the Oath by his neanderthal response, but he clearly violated the spirit of the Oath.

[Relayer]

Whether it had anything to do with it or not, Baradakas thought he had violated his oath of peace. I went back and re-read parts of this and he says a bit later when he is apologizing the TC...

"I was prepared to injure you, and that violation of my Oath of Peace needs reparation. Had you shown yourself to be a servant of the Gray Slayer, it would have been sufficient to capture you.

That's a good point. I forgot about him saying that.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

Its another of those great examples of SD teasing us with the quesion of TC's moral worth.. and it worked didnt it ?

He raped a girl. Do we need wood to question his moral worth for us, regenerated nerves or not?

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Its another of those great examples of SD teasing us with the quesion of TC's moral worth.. and it worked didnt it ?

He raped a girl. Do we need wood to question his moral worth for us, regenerated nerves or not?

TC should have failed the test of truth, but he didn't. That's the paradox or ambiguity that SRD leaves us with. Thus the question asked here by the OP over 5 years ago.

[edit]

Just to add a little about the slippage of the High Wood while TC tried to keep ahold of it: this gives the impression that he was teetering on the brink, that he could go either way, or that he is both good and evil. Thus the paradox or ambiguity. The reader gets the impression throughout the Chrons that TC wants to believe in the Land, but he just can't afford to. If he chooses to believe, then everything perishes, including himself. If he can maintain a grip on the High Wood then he can maintain a grip on the Unbelief which sustains him. Thus you have another paradox, since the High Wood is, to TC, unreal or illusory.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I don't know...what if he just "jerked aside" and didn't reach for it?

"What's wrong with you, Unbeliever?" asked Baradakas. "Do you fear the High Wood?"

"No, stupid, I didn't want to get hit in the head by your glowing javelin!" answered Covenant with indignation and ire.

"Okay. Fine. Then I just want you to touch my Wood."

"Umm, that's not part of my code. Atiaran, will you touch his Wood for me? Can we do a proxy in this case?"

[thewormoftheworld'send]

I don't know...what if he just "jerked aside" and didn't reach for it?

"What's wrong with you, Unbeliever?" asked Baradakas. "Do you fear the High Wood?"

"No, stupid, I didn't want to get hit in the head by your glowing javelin!" answered Covenant with indignation and ire.

"Okay. Fine. Then I just want you to touch my Wood."

"Umm, that's not part of my code. Atiaran, will you touch his Wood for me? Can we do a proxy in this case?"

You can re-write part of the scene and try to make it sound funny if you want, but the ambiguity remains in the text of the book itself.

If Baradakas had simply handed the High Wood to TC, then we would be sure. If he had tossed it to him with TC aware that it was a test, then we would still be sure. But as it is, we can't be certain. It doesn't seem like a fair test to me, especially when given to a stranger to the Land.

[SleeplessOne]

If Baradakas had simply handed the High Wood to TC, then we would be sure. If he had tossed it to him with TC aware that it was a test, then we would still be sure. But as it is, we can't be certain. It doesn't seem like a fair test to me, especially when given to a stranger to the Land

as usual, SRD fills in few details concerning the Test of Truth, therefore we can't be certain whether or not the Test was administered in a 'fair' way or not.

The people of the Land seemed to believe its veracity though, and the Hirebrand would be the logical man to carry out such a test; Baradakas, despite his initially thuggish response to TC's failure in catching the High Wood, was eventually portrayed as an insightful, sensitive character; I can't imagine he would be malicious enough to set TC up to fail by giving the Test in a dodgy manner (i.e throwing the Wood unexpectedly). It would serve the Woodhelvin no purpose to test TC in a haphazard way, they needed to be sure if he were a Raver or not.
So I feel that the Test, which the people of the Land held great stock in, was given in the correct manner.

I always thought that taking the tested person by suprise was a key part of the Test; and that the High Wood would enable itself to be easily caught by someone 'true' and impossible to hold onto if the tested person were 'wrong'.
Perhaps the Wood would appear to a 'true' person to be thrown in slow-motion, or maybe it would be drawn in a compelled fashion to the tested person's hand. The unpreparedness of the tested party needn't neccessarily make any difference.

[Rawedge Rim]

The point that Baradakas might himself become unworthy for a moment could very well be valid.

After the failed test of Truth, when TC is being guested by Baradakas, the Hirebrand states that he was wrong for having tried to club TC when simply restraining him would have been enough.

And as has been noted, with the Wild Magic, TC surpassed any test of Truth that could be administered by any in the Land, though it might have been interesting had an Elohim or an Insequent administered the Test.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

My post attempted to argue that SRD intended the result of the test of truth to be ambiguous. So I'm not saying that Baradakas should have administered the test this or that way, as if he was a real person. I'm saying that SRD wrote the scene in such a way, given all sorts of possible scenarios, that the result was intentionally ambiguous. If Baradakas had handed the staff to TC, the result would not be ambiguous. If TC had been better prepared for the throwing test, the result would not be ambiguous. SRD rigged the scene so he could drive his readers crazy with the ambiguity of the result. The slippage of the staff when TC gripped onto it is a metaphor for ambiguity.

The reason Baradakas declared the test a failure is not because TC failed the test - we don't know this - but because of the tension caused by his belief that Ravers are abounding in the Land. Baradakas jumped to a conclusion based on nervousness, but the reader is not supposed to.

[Blackhawk]

maybe the point was that however necessary laws and enforcers are, there will be those who are fallible and quick to judge, twisting that law or good intention into something potentially evil with a simple reaction to the unknown.

now that i think on it, the quick toss maybe was necessary. Baradakas would not have time to kill a raver if he said, Hold this piece of wood, because a raver would know what was coming and what would happen if it held high wood, I think the Toss was meant to either expose the Raver if raver/TC stepped out of the way and made no attemp to catch it, and a reflex failure if he attempted and it rejected him as it did. but while it rejected him it also was willing to do his bidding... white gold trumps knowledge of the earthpower.

Had Baradakas truly tested a Raver I dont think his club would have helped him out anyway, and since the strongest tool availavble would have been the lillianrill rod, it wouldnt have done him much good lying at the ravers feet.

I dont think Baradakas was capable of giving a test that would allow capture had the tested been guilty or a raver just like the first time a real Raver escaped.

[Rocksister]

Blackhawk is back! Love watching your avatar change. It's so awesomely cool. And I agree with your remarks. It had to be unexpected or it wouldn't have told them anything. Just like Miss America can't know the final question until they ask it. Ha, poor comparison, but I try......

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

This whole scene is a metaphore for the greater meaning of the entire Chrons:

Cov didn't make his first grade t-ball team, and this is his true inner struggle.

[Blackhawk]

Blackhawk is back! Love watching your avatar change. It's so awesomely cool. And I agree with your remarks. It had to be unexpected or it wouldn't have told them anything. Just like Miss America can't know the final question until they ask it. Ha, poor comparison, but I try......

Thx Rocksister I appreciate it. yep im working on TC art again, your avatar of the first will be the next thing i start on I promise, and ive done some more with Coercri which has been daunting me for over 6 months now..(I just set everything aside for a few months). The limitations of the programs (or myself) just wont give it justice but im getting there.

This whole scene is a metaphore for the greater meaning of the entire Chrons:

Cov didn't make his first grade t-ball team, and this is his true inner struggle.