R Scott Bakker's "The Judging Eye" Discussion

[Zarathustra]

I wish you'd read a little faster. I'm dying to begin the discussion of some of the ramifications of the plot.

p 107. I'm getting there!

The scene with the skin spy on display was nice. The trick with the mirror made it seem truly terrifying. Bakker does a great job making Esmenet seem human and and Empress at the same time, as if this is the view from the inside what the rest of the world can't see, might be shocked to see. Being "on stage" in front of thousands of people, being their reassurance, their proof, was an interesting view. I've always thought Bakker did an amazing job with this whore.

But the next chapter with Achamian and Mimara was truly stunning. First of all, I finally see the inklings of a plot. Achamian's dreams no longer being a source of torment for him, but clues to Kellhus's origins--that's exactly what this series and this character needed. But the conversations in which Bakker reveals this plot-expansion are simply breathtaking in their skill and craft. Showing the flip-flop of perspectives of these two pathetic characters, and how they judge each other in the midst of their own degradation, and how they come to realize they are like "siblings," and then end as tragically mismatched lovers . . . wow.

Bakker choses his scenes wisely. He always drops us into the characters' heads while they are feeling intense emotions. And those emotions make perfect sense.

The world hates you.
Even here.
The Last Place.

Mimara truly has nowhere else to go. And even here she is out of place. Achamian has spent 20 years writing down his dreams in an almost futile attempt to exact revenge (at least Mimara thinks . . .).

And the writing, as always, just blows me away.

I suppose Mimara is the one with the Judging Eye, eh?

[Brinn]

I'll have to go back and re-read where you are so as not to offer any spoilers for you... but to answer your brief question; was it that obvious?!?!

At this point in the narrative I ask you who is/are the heroes and who is/are the villains?

P.S.
Can't wait until you get to "Marrow". Not many more pages to go now.

[Zarathustra]

Yeah, it was kind of obvious. She has flashes where the world is revealed to be either good or evil. I'd say that counts as a judging eye. It stuck out to me at the first mention, even before she used it to see that Achamian is "damned," because I don't believe it's a skill anyone else has ever exhibited.

I think that Achamian is the good guy. Esmenent a "good girl." Kellhus is the bad guy. His children are bad (perhaps not the "idiot"). I think what Kellhus is trying to accomplish with the Great Ordeal is actually the Second Apocalypse Achamian and the the Mandate have been foreseeing all this time.

[Brinn]

Keep reading! I have several discussions that I want to engage in but regardless of how delicately I try to frame my questions I still feel like I'd be spoiling things. I'd rather you have the enjoyment of experiencing the revelations yourself. I'll wait.

But keep me updated. I enjoy reading your comments and maybe, as you progress, we'll be able to have more in-depth discussions without fear of spoilers.

[Zarathustra]

Alright, I've crossed the threshold into Marrow, and passed the 135 mark (148 right now). You are indeed correct, sir! This is my favorite chapter yet. The introduction of the Skin Eaters is one of the coolest character intros I've ever seen. These three were instantly painted with such distinct lines. Three very different characters, members of a group, and yet in the span of a paragraph (p.138) Bakker nailed them with such precision, that I felt like I knew enough about them to start predicting how they'd react. I could see them clearly and distinctly.

The entire descent into Marrow is a textbook example of scene-setting; both succinct and detailed. Five pages is all he needed to get this hermit wizard moving again after 20 years, explain his connection to this town (his slave), show how traveling reawakens memories of his youth, describe the look and function of Marrow, and then paint a vivid picture of this town I wouldn't want to visit.


I guess I'm turning this into a mini-dissection. Hope you don't mind. I've got to quote some of this stuff.

He was half-breathless by this time, his body suffused with the falling-forward hum of slogging through distances of mud. His cloak seemed lined with ingots of lead, so pendulous it had become. The town's name was appropriate, he decided. Marrow. He could almost imagine that he tramped through the muck of halved bones.

There was an unruliness in the air, a whiff of some profound lawlessness, which he initially ascribed to the release of pent urgencies. The Scalpoi spent months far from any hearth, warring and hunting Sranc through the trackless Wilds. He could scarce imagine a more savage calling, or a greater warrant for excess.

But as the mad parade thickened, he realized that the abandon was more than simply a matter of glutting frustrated lusts. There were too many men from too many different castes, creeds, and nations. Caste-nobles from Cingulat. Runaway slaves from Ce Tydonn. Fanim heretics from Girgash. It was as though common origins were all that guaranteed civilization, a shared language of life, and that everything was fury and miscommunication otherwise. Hungers--that was all these men had in common. Instincts. What had made these men wild wasn't the wilderness, or even the mad savagery of the Sranc, it was the inability to trust anything more than the bestial in one another.

The introduction of the Skin Eaters in stages was masterful. Obviously, Bakker wanted to make an impression. These guys are badasses. So he sets the scene (dark, dangerous, suspicious), enters a tavern, talks to the bartender (itself a very odd scene, like something out of a Cohen Bro film--Steve Buscemi could have played that role), and then we get the bartender's impression of the Skin Eaters.

The 5 or 6 pages of their initial conversation makes me want to go back and revise all my scenes where I have people talking to each other. This book makes me nervous. I've started underlining like crazy just to keep track of all the places where he surprises me with language and insight.


Jumping back to a previous chapter, where Kelmomas kills his brother Samarmas, I have no idea where this is going. The little shit obviously seems like an evil character, but then the mother-earth cult seems to think that he is a "gift" from their god to take down Kellhus.

"Tell them the Mother sends her Son."

And then the text jumps directly to this scene. And the Secret Voice inside Kel seems to be his brother's voice. I don't know if that's just a poetic way to describe Kel's own conscience, or if it's literal. With these twins who spent 3 years staring into each other's eyes, it's hard to tell. Maybe Sammi's soul got "sucked up" into his brother. Maybe that's why he was an idiot, whereas Kel was a genius. After he kills his brother, the voice asks him, "Why did you wait so long to kill me."

So, I'm expecting freakiness to ensue.

[Brinn]

I guess I'm turning this into a mini-dissection. Hope you don't mind.

Mind?!?!? This is what I've been waiting for! I love your dissections and I can say that this is one book that I would love to dissect chapter-by-chapter.

These guys are badasses.

You haven't seen the half of it my friend....you haven't seen the half.

This book makes me nervous. I've started underlining like crazy just to keep track of all the places where he surprises me with language and insight.

IMHO, he is, quite simply, a savant. The prose in the PON series was already head and shoulders above most (and I don't simply mean speculative fiction authors either) and I think he is getting better. I am in awe of his ability.

Jumping back to a previous chapter, where Kelmomas kills his brother Samarmas, I have no idea where this is going. The little shit obviously seems like an evil character, but then the mother-earth cult seems to think that he is a "gift" from their god to take down Kellhus.

"Tell them the Mother sends her Son."

And then the text jumps directly to this scene. And the Secret Voice inside Kel seems to be his brother's voice. I don't know if that's just a poetic way to describe Kel's own conscience, or if it's literal. With these twins who spent 3 years staring into each other's eyes, it's hard to tell. Maybe Sammi's soul got "sucked up" into his brother. Maybe that's why he was an idiot, whereas Kel was a genius. After he kills his brother, the voice asks him, "Why did you wait so long to kill me."

I have a lot to say about this passage but once again I'm afraid of spoiling things for you so I think it's best to wait. I will say though that the origin of the voice inside Kel's head is one of my central questions.

Other thoughts:
The introduction of the Skin Eaters plotline begins to propel this book forward like a freight train. It's a juggeraut from here on out and I hope that becoming immersed in the story increases your pace.

There is a rather obvious homage to Tolkein in this book and some have expressed concern over the similarities between the two. I'm interested in your take on it. IMHO, Bakker's take on Tolkein far outstrips the master but I was never a huge fan of Tolkein in the first place. I recognize his contributions to the genre and realize that his place in the pantheon is secure but I don't think that LOTR is the end-all and be-all of fantasy lit. Additionally, I have elevated Bakker to a spot where he can do little wrong in my eyes. In simple terms, I might be biased.

Anyway, keep me updated. I look forward to reading the daily progress report!

[Zarathustra]

The rest of Marrow had a quick dip in quality, then finished up strong. It seemed to lose steam as soon as Achamian dreamed of Sauglish. I have to admit that his dreams can be some of the slowest parts of the book, even though they sometimes contain truly epic scenes. But it sucks the momentum right out of the story, and presents places and people which run counter to the narrative flow. He should take a lesson from Lost, I think, and spend more time developing character in these flashbacks.

Next we get an introduction of another character, Kiampas, who isn’t nearly as interesting, and Bakker seems a bit bored here. After setting the stage so carefully with the first three Skin Eaters, it’s almost as if he wore himself out.

I do like how Achamian seems to be using these people. At first, he feels a little bit guilty, then he has another dream (much better than the Sauglish one) concerning Seswatha and the hiding place for Anisurimbor’s line, and suddenly thinks their lives are worth the cost of stopping Kellhus. This deceit adds a level of tension. But the transformation Achamian goes through from guilt to guiltless was very well done. The little paragraph as they leave the city is another gem. And then Mimara’s vigil is the perfect ending. This is an amazing chapter.

I’m almost done with the next chapter, as well, the one about Sorweel. His plight is interesting. The logistics of the Great Ordeal needing him and his city are fascinating. And meeting two “mini-Kellhus” characters is a real treat. I have a feeling that the “Kellhus-perspective” is the POV Bakker likes writing in the most, and this is one of the reasons why he added half a dozen of his children to the story—to put that narrative device into as much as the book as possible, even in areas where Kellhus isn’t needed. I’ve said it before: this is a writer’s perfect device, a technique which allows him to cut right to the core of character interaction.

The key is authenticity. Kellhus and his sons sound so profound and insightful because they simply speak the truth—and it sounds so strange and powerful because people spend their lives hiding from the truth. They don’t say what they mean, and don’t think what they feel. They look for ways to distract themselves until it becomes a habit. A way of life. The third paragraph on page 174 is a perfect example of this, where Kayutas tells Sorweel how he doesn’t particularly like this assignment, this political exercise, but that he recognizes this as his own shortcoming and doesn’t blame Sorweel. He spells out his intentions without any hint of subterfuge.

And then the next paragraph confirms what we all suspect: this authenticity is itself wielded like a tool for persuasion. But it’s a persuasion that is so honest, out in the open, that it renders its own duplicity irrelevant. Sorweel himself thinks, “How does one war against foes such as this?” The authenticity which the Dunyain wield leave no denied flaw for a foe to uncover and use against them. They cannot be manipulated by pulling on the strings of their internal knots, because they see themselves with enough penetrating authenticity to untie those knots . . . or they go mad, as some of Kellhus’s children have done. I suspect they went mad because they had the enhanced perception of the others, but that enhanced perception was focused upon “flawed” souls, so they couldn’t take it. They didn’t have the habit of neglect and distraction that the rest of us have. Nor did they have the ability to untie their internal knots.

I’m left with some questions . . .

What is a nonman?

For that matter, what is a No-God?

Are we dealing with science fiction, on some level? Didn’t the last three books talk about a space ship, at one point (that Seswatha entered)? Are the skin-spies machines? Are Sranc aliens?

[Brinn]

You truly don't remember the nonmen from the first series? One of the very first scenes in the book has Kellhus fighting a nonman in the far north. It's his first exposure to sorcery.

The nonmen (known as the Cunoroi as well) are the first inhabitants of Eanna. They are very powerful sorcerers and taught the gnosis to the Mandate. They are also immortal (although they weren't always so). If you haven't read the encyclopedic glossary at the end of The Thousandfold Thought it contains a wealth of great background info that expands upon the novel. The vey cool thing about the nonmen is that although immortal they still have mortal minds and as such have a tendency to go mad. These are the nonmen "Erratics". They seek suffering and trauma as those emotions are powerful and lodge themselves in their memory for very long periods. Everything but the most traumatic memories fade.

I have no idea what the No-God is. And apparently the No-God doesn't know either: WHAT AM I? WHAT DO YOU SEE?

There are definitely aspects of sci-fi mixed in here. The Inchoroi did fall to earth in a ship known as the Ark of the Sky or the Incu Holoinas. The Inchoroi sorcery is known as the Tekne which I believe is simply advanced technology. IMHO, the Heron Spear is a very powerful energy weapon or laser.

If you haven't had a chance to read that glossary at the end of TTT do so. It has a ton of great info!

[Zarathustra]

I remember the nonmen mentioned, I just didn't know what they are. And, besides the one you mentioned from the prologue of the first book, there were no nonmen characters, right?

Do you think that magic itself will get a s.f. explanation? I don't understand why he's being so coy about it, and leaving it in the background.

[Brinn]

bump...

Any updates???

[Zarathustra]

Yeah, I'm about 300 into it. I've discovered the "Tolkien tribute." I'm still deciding . . .

[Brinn]

How far into Cil-Aujus are they at that point?

[Zarathustra]

They were on the threshold in the last chapter I finished about that. I just started the chapter where they are entering.

I'm really enjoying the Sorweel chapters. He presents an interesting perspective on the Great Ordeal.

And little Kelmomas is a terror. A demon child. Good lord. He has just killed that priestess, but I still think he's possibly on the "good" side, because I think he killed her in order to stop her from fulfilling Kellhus's command to betray her order. That's a nice ending to his story for this book, and it ties together those loose ends nicely.

I suspect that I'm heading for a balrog-like encounter with a dragon in an abandoned underground kingdom that they must go through after being thwarted by snowy mountains. Yes, very much like Moria.

[Brinn]

Keep it up. Sorweel becomes ever more interesting. Little Kel is great...all that power and so little wisdom.

And now you're on to the crowning achievement of the book...The descent into the black halls of Cil-Aujus where the mettle of all will be tested. It is absolutely Bakker's version of Moria but, IMO, its his style and prose that elevate it beyond the original. The claustrophobia, the menace, the history of the place, the volatility of the characters and the rules of the slog make for an engrossing read. Don't wait so long before the next post.

[Zarathustra]

Don't wait so long before the next post.

Damn. "Speed up." "Post more." Any other commands?

[Brinn]

Finish the F'in thing!!!

[Holsety]

This post is a work of patchwork and quotes may be out-of-order. So apologies if it is only half-coherent (actually, I think you should be thankful if I managed 50% coherence, I feel kind of dizzy...)

I stumbled upon the book in Barnes and Noble last night. I didn't even realized I had neared the "B" section of the scifi and fantasy section, and my eyes would have ignored The Judging Eye and its new (and unfamiliar) cover but for the familiar spine of The Thousandfold Thought, which made me pause for a moment to look over Bakker's works. Thanks be that the old was stacked with the new.

Well, with a light night in bed and a (reasonably) long plane flight, I was able to burn through this book in a little over a day (with some time in between devoted to The Sot-Weed Factor, and some eating and sleeping as well). Thank god I was responsible for once over my break and got work done in advance - I don't need to stay up till 5 in the morning, working to undo the damage of my flight from the real world this weekend.

Although I enjoyed it immensely, much as I enjoy all books I rip through non-stop (SRD comes to mind), I now think Malik's course was probably the better one for real insight into the books. I like Sorweel a lot but I think my one-day-read gave him less time than he deserved (ok, I think this may be true of all the characters but for Sorweel most of all). In particular, I have no well-defined idea what's going on with that slave of his who likes to feed the dirt. Yet it's Kelmomamas (I think) I followed closest, better even than those familiar minds I hope Bakker will never close to us, Akka and Esmi.

I like the "filler" exposition, too, such as the descriptions of massing the troops for the war march. The details he chooses to describe such a large, complex undertaking are both spare and revealing. He can get away with such few details because he is so discerning. He knows what matters. It's as if not only is he not making this up, standing there watching, but he's also a most discerning observer.

I personally feel like this book is supersaturated with grandeur. The few pages which failed to seize my interest wholly still managed to delight me in their rarity - the surprise of finding that there were, at times, words written on the page which didn't send me spinning in one way or another.

I don't want to use the example yet, because I don't know if Malik has read it, but it involves Kel and Sammi.

This stuff isn't in response to any quotes:
Every time I hear one character ask another "what do you see?" (saw it at least twice in this book) I'm sure Bakker is consciously harking back to a couple critical (in my mind) points in the Thousandfold Thought, but I can't figure out why. Still, I've dogeared the pages (though I've dogeared many others as well...) and if I'm feeling confident and perceptive later, I'll go back and manufacture some tenuous connection.

Those words are spoken in dreams of the No God, and then by a mortal shortly afterward - Kellhus to Achamian I think, but perhaps Achamian to Kellhus - I don't have my TTT with me so I can only rely on my faulty memory.

I think what Kellhus is trying to accomplish with the Great Ordeal is actually the Second Apocalypse Achamian and the the Mandate have been foreseeing all this time.

I am torn on this. On the one hand, in TTT he seems to directly refute this in his conversation with his father. Apparently, Moenghus' rational Dunyain nature was formidable in all save the arts of the Cishuarim, which harness emotional power, and it's this that makes him likely to surrender to/cooperate with the consult (with the limited sorcery he's trapped in he could achieve as much as Kellhus).

However, ever since a certain revelation that Mimara's eye has given us (restraining myself for now), it seems like Kellhus does indeed have motivation to collaborate with the Consult all the same - or fulfill their plans after/during his destruction of Golgotterath.

I'll have to go back and re-read where you are so as not to offer any spoilers for you... but to answer your brief question; was it that obvious?!?!

I don't know if it matters, but I first realized to whom the title applies on page 86 in my version (shortly into chapter 4, which is set in Hunoreal). At that point my mind went "Oh, DUH". Before then I had no idea.

There are definitely aspects of sci-fi mixed in here. The Inchoroi did fall to earth in a ship known as the Ark of the Sky or the Incu Holoinas. The Inchoroi sorcery is known as the Tekne which I believe is simply advanced technology. IMHO, the Heron Spear is a very powerful energy weapon or laser.

Ya. Absolute agreement from my corner. However, it's worth noting that the distinction is blurring in present Earwa as the gnostic sorcerors of Mangaecca, furthering the works of the inchoroi, have made at least one skin spy with the mark (simias).

Also, it seems like some aspect of the Tekne (specifically the No-God) addresses the world of the gods - where desire shapes reality - as the consult seems to think they can use their arts to shut off the heavens and save their souls.

Brinn, you can wait until Malik has finished the book if you want, but do you have any thoughts on Incariol? Akka's reflections on the Nonmen - specifically, incredulity that there's an Ishroi he hasn't met in the dreams or at least heard of - point to the possibility that the nonman once had another name.

And to end this post, I sound my agreement with any and all praise for "Bakker's Moria."

[Zarathustra]

Holsety, I've only got one chapter left, the big Moria chapter. So I didn't read your entire post. I didn't want to be spoiled. But I'm glad you enjoyed it (I think, right?). After reading nearly all of it, I may have to revise some of my statements and tone down some of my praise. For instance, the quote of mine you gave about Bakker being succinct will have to go. The Sorweel chapters in particular rehashed many of the same points over and over. Granted, I liked them every single time, but I can no longer say that he only gave necessary details. In particular, he seemed to harp upon the fact that Kellhus could wield these people from different nations as a single force over and over. It is an amazing observation, but I began to feel that Sorweel's entire purpose was simply to show us how massive this marching force was--even going so far as to have him ride out of the columns and look at it! Again, I liked these views, these perspectives, and they were necessary. It truly is an amazing thing Kellhus (and really Bakker) is doing here, managing so many people. So this complaint probably isn't fair to Sorweel, because he did have an interesting character arc. But given that the most important thing he learned about Kellhus was already given in the prologue, I'm left a little disappointed that he spent an entire novel looking around, basically. The development with his slave is interesting, and will probably pay off big time. We finally have a force that can challenge at least one of Kellhus's powers, and the Earth-mother god (I'm horrible with names) seems like a power to rival him. Good. We need something to balance his awesome power. But as far as the story goes, The Great Ordeal should have moved a lot farther (aren't they still in the same spot, basically?), and Sorweel should have done more.

The first Moria chapter was also disappointing. I expect the next chapter to make up for that. However, 40 pages of walking around in the dark didn't do it for me. The writing was great. I liked the concept of walking so deep into the earth that Achamian starts to think they are walking into a different metaphysical level (hell). And the guy with an eye in his heart was freaky (though inexplicable and confusing). I like the Erratic' s sermon about oblivion and the dark--that was awesome. But 40 pages to do that? With no character development in all those pages? No choices, no action? Disappointing.

Given that I was disappointed with the end of the first trilogy, I hope this isn't a trend. I hope Bakker's weakness isn't how he handles endings. This last chapter better knock it out of the park!

[Brinn]

I personally feel like this book is supersaturated with grandeur. The few pages which failed to seize my interest wholly still managed to delight me in their rarity - the surprise of finding that there were, at times, words written on the page which didn't send me spinning in one way or another.

I agree and I think it's a function of the prose and language as well as ability to find just the right details to make a scene come alive. Malik's observations that you quoted are the best summation of Bakker's primary skill that I've heard.

I don't want to use the example yet, because I don't know if Malik has read it, but it involves Kel and Sammi.

Give it to me in spoiler tags.

Brinn, you can wait until Malik has finished the book if you want, but do you have any thoughts on Incariol? Akka's reflections on the Nonmen - specifically, incredulity that there's an Ishroi he hasn't met in the dreams or at least heard of - point to the possibility that the nonman once had another name.

Spoiler

I would agree. He must be someone we've been exposed to even if only obliquely. I don't think he's Mekeretrig and he's obviously not Gin-Yursis but what about the Nonman who betrayed the race...I think his name was Ninjanjin. I think Mimara, at one point, states that she recognizes Cleric as one of Earwa's great powers. Regardless, he is one bad-assed Mofo!

And to end this post, I sound my agreement with any and all praise for "Bakker's Moria."

Excellent, that's a small piece of evidence that I'm not just an unabashed Bakker ass-kisser (Although that really still may be the case!)!

Here are some of the questions that I've been pondering. I'm interested in your thoughts;

Spoiler

Who is the person in the prologue that approaches the Skin Eaters? Is it Kellhus himself or one of his agents? Is it an agent of the Inchoroi?

Is Achamian exercising free will or is he once again being manipulated by Kellhus?

Who is Cleric really?

Is the voice in Kelmomas' head his conscience or is it an outside agency? Ajokli maybe or Samarmas?

Did Seswatha really ask who Mimara was in one of Achamian's dreams?

What is going on with Mimara perceiving the chorae as the absolute opposite of how they have always been portrayed before. Instead of black void she sees the chorae as fountain of light. Is that the judging eye at work again showing that objectively, the Chorae are tools of good?

I guess that's enough for now.

[Holsety]

EDIT-Brinn, I didn't address your cleric question because I talked about it in response to one of your other pgphs a little bit, and I frankly have close to no idea in any case. (The only nonmen names committed to my memory are Cujara Cin'Moi and Nil-Giccas, and I don't even remember what the second one did!)

In general:
Every single conversation with or concerning cleric is simultaneously satisfying (it gives me some insight into nonmen) and frustrating (I never feel I've gotten enough) XD

Holsety, I've only got one chapter left, the big Moria chapter. So I didn't read your entire post. I didn't want to be spoiled. But I'm glad you enjoyed it (I think, right?).

I think I avoided spoilers pretty thoroughly, and I think you've covered at least one of the two I hinted at wanting to talk about (wow, that's pretty vague). But ya, I did enjoy it. Then again, I even enjoy books I think are bad most of the time. But I did think it was a good book.

And the guy with an eye in his heart was freaky (though inexplicable and confusing). I like the Erratic' s sermon about oblivion and the dark--that was awesome.

I thought these points were supposed to mirror the prince of nothing trilogy - though I agree the "eye in heart" thing was weird, it seems to be the same symptom of the bad dreams and bone-vomiting at mengedda. And something about the nonman's impromptu sermon reminded me of Kellhus' sermons in the earlier books.

I don't want to use the example yet, because I don't know if Malik has read it, but it involves Kel and Sammi.

Give it to me in spoiler tags.

Spoiler

To me, the death of Samarmas - which is so pathetic, a child falling in the middle of an improvised game - is also surprisingly sad. To me at least, the manipulation and death of this clumsy, overeager, and trusting twin, and Kelmomamas' all-encompassing grasp of his brother's motivations, puts it right along with the death of every man Kellhus manipulated during the first holy war. It's powerful and sobering to watch. I figured Kel would kill Sammi at some point, but I thought it would be sappy and more of a "well at least we have that part out of the way" moment.

In general, it's interesting how Kel's crimes seem to so perfectly camouflage themselves as the actions of others. His first murder is so intricately plotted as to seem either chance or the will of the gods, the second so brutal that it seems the work of skin-spies and not humans.

Spoiler

I don't think he's Mekeretrig and he's obviously not Gin-Yursis but what about the Nonman who betrayed the race...I think his name was Ninjanjin. I think Mimara, at one point, states that she recognizes Cleric as one of Earwa's great powers. Regardless, he is one bad-assed Mofo!

Spoiler

I don't know my nonman names. I assume Ninjanjin is the guy who betrayed Cujara? I think he is a possibility, since he might not have been seen by Akka during the dreams. Similarly, I know that Akka has seen one important nonman (a consult ally who captures and tortures seswatha) so we can eliminate him - but, I can't remember his name XD

Spoiler

Who is the person in the prologue that approaches the Skin Eaters? Is it Kellhus himself or one of his agents? Is it an agent of the Inchoroi?

Spoiler

Although it's fairly weak evidence, I feel like we've never seen a skin-spy narrator who isn't very obviously a skin-spy, and so, if it's an agent of the inchoroi, I don't think it's the ones we're "used to".

I seem to remember Akka implying that Mimara is already acting as an (unconscious) agent of Kellhus' will, so on the one hand it's easy to imagine this "traveller" as an agent who will somehow control the outcome of Akka's mission (either personally, joining the skin eaters, or indirectly by somehow getting Ironsoul's cooperation). However, the esmenet chapters seem to outline the necessary weakening of Kellhus' control at home; his need to use others (who are inevitably less able than he is) to accomplish his goals will surely have consequences.

And for that reason, it's hard to imagine him having so much influence that he can time his emissary so perfectly to intercept akka's journey (prologue is in late 4131, akka's trip is in early 4132). But my intuition still tells me the traveller was an agent of Kellhus'.

Spoiler

As one, the men upriver stood and stared in his direction.
Just like animals, he thought

Spoiler

This moment seems "too dunyain" to be anything but the thought of anyone but an agent of Kellhus. (though I guess it would fit with the inchoroi agents too...)

Perhaps I'm approaching this the wrong way. One reason I think he's an Inchoroi agent is a matter of motivation. Why would Kellhus need Akka to find the Dunyain? Kellhus knows where they are! Of course, Kellhus might want - for some incomprehensible reason - Akka to find out about his origins or something -_- but the Inchoroi motivations (latch on to Akka's investigation and find the nest that bred Kellhus) seem more reasonable. True, Kellhus might just want to keep tabs on Akka.

Spoiler

Is Achamian exercising free will or is he once again being manipulated by Kellhus?

Spoiler

Akka himself seems to suspect the latter XD so IMO it would be "too good to be true" if he was not being manipulated.

Kellhus is such an omnipresent force in the books that even if he is not consciously trying to interfere in Akka's journey, his mere existence will manipulate Akka's interactions with Mimara and others.

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Is the voice in Kelmomas' head his conscience or is it an outside agency? Ajokli maybe or Samarmas?

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Not sure. But if it's an outside agency, it could be the same one that spoke to Kellhus in TTT. And how could it be Sammi? Are you thinking that Kel "took" some of Sammi for himself during those months of staring at each other or something?

What I actually think is that the Kel we hear from a lot of the time is a surface personality and that the italicized "voice" is the internal one. It even calls him "make believe" towards the start. In other words, maybe the Kel we hear from most of the time is the facade which he puts up for others, and the "voice" is the internal kel who kills with impunity.

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Did Seswatha really ask who Mimara was in one of Achamian's dreams?

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Are you asking if Akka's dream of Seswatha is accurate? Are you asking if "past seswatha" actually spoke those words, way back in the time of apocalypse? I suspect the answer to that is no. Akka's dreams were twisted from - As far as we know - the reality of Seswatha's life as far back as The Thousandfold Thought, when he dreams of moggy winning against anaxy. In other words, I think that many of the deviations in Achamian's dreams are very likely not just "new", they are also quite possibly inaccurate. I do NOT have any idea why this is. If Kellhus and Akka talked about it over a campfire, I figure if Akka still had Kellhus to play psychiatrist for him, Kellhus would say "your own desires to imprint Seswatha with your own personality and to find answers in your dreams are affecting you" or something like that. I really hope that isn't true, and that Akka really WILL find the location of Ishual in the coffers.

Just as an example that might support this:
During one of Akka's dreams of Cel and Seswa talking, he discovers that the scroll w/ Ishual's location is somewhere in the coffers. When he awakens, he's relieved because he knows that:

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His lie. Fate was making his lie true.

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During his journey, Akka has become loyal to the skin-eaters. He's begun to respect them. What results is nothing more complex than good old guilt - he hates himself for condemning them to death, for lying about his destination. As a result, his own dreams twist to compensate for that guilt, fooling him into thinking his lie has become truth, that if he has sacrificed the lives of dozens of men, he has not done it by lying to them. In other words, perhaps Akka's subconscious (or whatever) has twisted the dreams so he can feel good about himself!

Another tantalizing possibility occurs to me. Did the dream of Seswa asking "who is Mimara" occur in Cil-Aujas? Perhaps dreaming along these "borders of hell" (like he did in Mengedda, where he dreams of an altered final battle against the no god), where the pain and loss of the past trickles into the present, causes these altered dreams. Maybe the present trickles into the past and Seswatha actually gets confused glimpses of Achamian's thoughts?

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What is going on with Mimara perceiving the chorae as the absolute opposite of how they have always been portrayed before. Instead of black void she sees the chorae as fountain of light. Is that the judging eye at work again showing that objectively, the Chorae are tools of good?

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I think this is the only question I feel confident enough to answer w/ real certainty. Since the Judging Eye seems to think of sorcery as "evil" (sorcerers are in fact damned) it makes perfect sense that Mimara sees the Chorae not as "negative points" (sorcerous sight, to which they are invisible) but fountains of light (judging eye, to which they represent good because sorcery is somehow evil)