7 Biblical Feasts

[Cybrweez]

I just learned this about a month ago, and thought it was pretty cool. Basically, the 7 feasts in the Hebrew Scriptures show the timeline of Jesus' life. Well, not everything, but the events that matter in terms of salvation. The 7 feasts are:

Passover - redemption of Israel, those who used the blood of the lamb were covered, protected from death of their first born son

Unleavened Bread - sanctification of Israel, 7 days, eating no leavened bread (leaven represents sin)

First Fruits - resurrection of Israel as free people, remembering exodus out of Egypt

Weeks, or Feast of the Harvest - origination of Israel as covenant people of Yahweh, recalling giving of law at Sinai

Feast of Trumpets - calling of Israel to judgement, Israel present to Lord for His favor

Day of Atonement - atonement of covenant people

Feast of Tabernacles - signified God's presence w/His people, looked forward to coming of Messiah

I always knew the significance of Passover, the blood of the lamb protecting from death, and Jesus during the Passover equating himself w/the Lamb of God. Then the following week, Feast of Unleavened bread, Jesus saying He is the Bread of Life, and sanctifying Israel, such as throwing the moneylenders out of the temple. First Fruits is the 1st Sunday after Passover, the day Jesus arose. Feast of the Harvest is known to most Gentiles as Pentecost, the day the Holy Spirit descended on believers (representing the law of God written on our hearts, and He said in the Scriptures, also, interesting that on the first giving of the law, 3,000 were killed, the 2nd time, 3,000 were joined to the church).

Then the last 3 are for His return. The trumpets will sound when He returns. So I think on this day He will return, course, don't know the year. For His second coming, He'll be judge (as He said in New Testament, He didn't come to judge then, but to save). After the judgement, His people will live w/Him forever, no need to look forward to coming Messiah, we'll be w/Him.

I think someone in the 'nonsense' thread mentioned that Jesus is not mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures. This is just one example about how they speak of Him. He said Himself that they speak of Him, for example, on the road to Emmaus He used the Scriptures to show the 2 travelers how they pointed to a suffering Messiah, and they realized He was w/them.

I'm just realizing I'm firmly in the boat of American Christians who are pretty ignorant of the 'Old Testament'.

[Menolly]

You would love reading Messianic Judaism teachings, then Andy. This is pretty much entirely the type of stuff they base their beliefs on.

...I just totally disagree with them.

The TANACH as written, when written, did not take JC into consideration at all. He did not exist. Teachings of the messiah to come is not mentioned in the Torah, just reference to the "end of days" only, although that is commonly believed to occur in the time of the messiah.

But in the eyes of traditional Judaism, none of these feasts have anything to do with the messiah, per se, much less JC in particular. Although the chasidism have added "The Feast of Moshiach" on to the last day of Passover. But that is a very new development, as chasidism wasn't founded as a movement until the 18th century, CE.

The Jewish Messiah ~ Religion Facts

[rusmeister]

By 18th century, I take it you mean what I call "A.D", Menolly? ("Current Era" is measured from what historical event?)
"CE" is just an attempt to try to hide that fact. (Not that you are consciously trying to do so. But that's where it came from.
I find all of those attempts to erase and break with our past, generated by radical intellectuals and printed in school textbooks and taught to children as loathsome. All of these deliberate changes in language also lead us to cease to understand our ancestors.)

The essential difference is merely one of disagreement. The fact is that the life of Christ really can be understood as fulfilling the prophecies of Isaiah, making sense of the story of Genesis, and so on. Jews simply deny that, just as Christians affirm it.

To me, the story of Joseph, for example, makes complete sense as something that really matters when looked at through the life of Christ. The entire Old Testament becomes the story of Christ, the preparation for Christ.
As Moses (I'll pass on referring to him as "M") lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up.

I think most Christians would be surprised to find out how (relatively) close Orthodoxy is to Judaism, which makes perfect sense, if you remember where Christianity came from.

[Menolly]

By 18th century, I take it you mean what I call "A.D", Menolly? ("Current Era" is measured from what historical event?)
"CE" is just an attempt to try to hide that fact. (Not that you are consciously trying to do so. But that's where it came from.
I find all of those attempts to erase and break with our past, generated by radical intellectuals and printed in school textbooks and taught to children as loathsome. All of these deliberate changes in language also lead us to cease to understand our ancestors.)

*shrug*

Of course I mean 1701-1800 in the current calendar.

Different strokes, rus.
I don't use A.D., as "Anno Domini" translates as "In the year of our L-rd." He is not my L-rd, so why should I use such terminology? It is not an affront on tradition on my part; simply a decision to not incorporate a social standard that does not apply to me.

As Moses (I'll pass on referring to him as "M")

*wry grin*
I'll pass on calling Moses "M" as well.
He doesn't qualify for my craziness of hyphenating certain "names."

[Cybrweez]

Menolly, I certainly understand in the eyes of traditional Judaism, the feasts have a different meaning. Of course not referring to JC, b/c then they'd be Messianic Jews. Altho, the feasts were created by God, so He may have very well been thinking of Jesus, who, was around at the time

I'm surprised to hear that teachings of the messiah are not mentioned in the Torah. I think they certainly are. I know rabbinical Judaism has changed some thought tho, maybe this is a change. Before Christ came, there certainly was more thought about the Messiah, and during Christ's life, many Jewish people thought it was the time for Messiah, not just in New Testament writings, but we know the Essenes were anticipating as well.

[Menolly]

Ah, keep in mind the Torah is not all of the TANACH.
The Torah is only the Five Books of Moses.
Most of what is seen as talk of moshiach is from Nevi'im, or the books of the Prophets.

[Cybrweez]

Yep, I do know that much

And yes, I would say that the Torah, when given to the Hebrews, not much was considered messianic, but like the feasts, we can see how they were so. Another example would be Abraham sacrificing Isaac.

I'm curious menolly about current Jewish thought about the Messiah. A Jewish friend of mine said before Christ, it was thought there were 2 Messiahs, one of Joseph (suffering) and one of David (reigning), b/c of the picture of both in the Scriptures, especially Isaiah (especially chapter 53), but elsewhere, like Zechariah. Then since Christ, the suffering aspect has been dumped, and only the reigning Messiah is mentioned.

[Menolly]

I'm curious menolly about current Jewish thought about the Messiah. A Jewish friend of mine said before Christ, it was thought there were 2 Messiahs, one of Joseph (suffering) and one of David (reigning), b/c of the picture of both in the Scriptures, especially Isaiah (especially chapter 53), but elsewhere, like Zechariah. Then since Christ, the suffering aspect has been dumped, and only the reigning Messiah is mentioned.

hmm...

This is something I never heard, but again, I am not all that learned.

My understanding of the messiah is that he is among us at any time, only non-aware. Any of the "pretenders" of the past (I am not saying JC was a "pretender", just since I do not believe moshiach has come yet...arrgh...I am saying this badly, just know I mean no offense) could have been that era's designated messiah. Moshiach is a descendant of David, righteous, who will see the third temple built and the following happen during his ascendancy:

• Peace among all nations (Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3)
  Perfect harmony and abundance in nature (Isaiah 11:6-9) (but some interpret this as an allegory for peace and prosperity)
  All Jews return from exile to Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5)
  Universal acceptance of the Jewish G-d and Jewish religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; 66:23; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9)
  No sin or evil; all Israel will obey the commandments (Zephaniah 3:13; Ezekiel 37:24)

which is a pretty hard bar to set, and has yet to be met.

He is not divine.
He is not born to a virgin.
He is not the son of HaShem.
He is not a savior nor a redeemer.
He is a normal mortal, gifted with the knowledge of what must be done when the time comes to do it.

That is my understanding of moshiach.
May he come soon...

[aliantha]

My understanding of the messiah is that he is among us at any time, only non-aware. Any of the "pretenders" of the past (I am not saying JC was a "pretender", just since I do not believe moshiach has come yet...arrgh...I am saying this badly, just know I mean no offense) could have been that era's designated messiah. Moshiach is a descendant of David, righteous, who will see the third temple built and the following happen during his ascendancy:

• Peace among all nations (Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:3)
  Perfect harmony and abundance in nature (Isaiah 11:6-9) (but some interpret this as an allegory for peace and prosperity)
  All Jews return from exile to Israel (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5)
  Universal acceptance of the Jewish G-d and Jewish religion (Isaiah 2:3; 11:10; 66:23; Micah 4:2-3; Zechariah 14:9)
  No sin or evil; all Israel will obey the commandments (Zephaniah 3:13; Ezekiel 37:24)

which is a pretty hard bar to set, and has yet to be met.

He is not divine.
He is not born to a virgin.
He is not the son of HaShem.
He is not a savior nor a redeemer.
He is a normal mortal, gifted with the knowledge of what must be done when the time comes to do it.

That is my understanding of moshiach.
May he come soon...

I never knew all that, Menolly. No wonder the Jews didn't accept Jesus as *the* messiah.

[Menolly]

The traditions get more complicated, ali, as the 36 Tzadikim are supposedly also always with us, and some say moshiach is counted among their numbers. But such teachings is beyond my comprehension at this time...

[aliantha]

According to this teaching, at any given time there are at least 36 holy Jews in the world who are Tzadikim. These holy people are hidden; i.e., nobody knows who they are. According to some versions of the story, they themselves may not know who they are. For the sake of these 36 hidden saints, God preserves the world even if the rest of humanity has degenerated to the level of total barbarism. This is similar to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Hebrew Bible, where God told Abraham that he would spare the city of Sodom if there was a quorum of at least 10 righteous men. Since nobody knows who the Lamedvavniks are, not even themselves, every Jew should act as if he or she might be one of them; i.e., lead a holy and humble life and pray for the sake of fellow human beings.

So, another difference from Christianity: the goal for Jews isn't life after death so much as it's keeping the whole race alive. I guess that makes sense, given Israel's history. But it's another thing I never knew.

I have always assumed that the only real difference in beliefs between Judaism and Christianity was whether Jesus was the Messiah. Silly me!

[Cybrweez]

ali, that was the original difference, but us Gentiles have changed the context over the years, and added quite a bit of pagan practices.

menolly, I think the example of the Messiah born of a virgin is another change in thought since Christ. The Septuagint translated the verse in Isaiah to virgin, but since its been argued its just young maiden. It would be an interesting study to determine what thoughts/ideas have changed over the years in Judaism.

Oh, and don't worry about offending me, I've said before it can't be done

[Menolly]

So, another difference from Christianity: the goal for Jews isn't life after death so much as it's keeping the whole race alive. I guess that makes sense, given Israel's history. But it's another thing I never knew.

I have always assumed that the only real difference in beliefs between Judaism and Christianity was whether Jesus was the Messiah. Silly me!

You get it.
Nice.

"He who takes a life...it is as if he has destroyed an entire world....but he who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the world entire" ~Talmud Sanhedrin 4:5

We don't focus on the afterlife at all. We know of Olam Ha-Ba but it is not the main goal. The purpose of man's existence is to attempt to infuse the mundane with the spiritual. The 613 Commandments are the guide to do such. But my own interpretation is the individual has the right to choose their own meaning of how to do so. Thus, I am not Torah observant, although I pray at a Chasidic/Lubavitch sect shul when I do attend services.

[rusmeister]

Here is an interesting talk I listened to about Jews and Christians.
audio.ancientfaith.com/bouteneff/sweeter_2009-04-25.mp3

from my favorite radio/podcast station:
ancientfaith.com/

[Menolly]

I'll be upfront with you, rus.
With the low quality of my laptop speakers and headphones
I'm not going to even attempt to listen to the program.
Is there a transcript of it anywhere which I can read?

[rusmeister]

I'll be upfront with you, rus.
With the low quality of my laptop speakers and headphones
I'm not going to even attempt to listen to the program.
Is there a transcript of it anywhere which I can read?

That's something that bugs me about AFR, Menolly. The only podcast that I know to be always accompanied by text is the "Close to Home" podcast (a mother of four - just belatedly realize that now we also qualify under the '4 children' title). But the station is designed to be listened to - and I, too, usually prefer reading to listening - although I love being able to run decent English language programming that my mostly Russian family can listen to.