Fav/Best of LOTR?

[matrixman]

Aaargh! Stop making me look like a fool with your brilliant, imperious arguments!

[SoulBiter]

TT is my least favorite movie.

But my initial suspicion was that book-Gandalf was a little too imperious for the scriptwriters' taste. He is lording his new superior position over Saruman. Gandalf commands Saruman's presence, then breaks his staff just to show he can.

Whereas movie-Gandalf grants an olive branch, and doesn't strike until Saruman strikes first. Which is more in keeping with the brilliant and tough but compassionate Gandalf the movie portrays.

Maybe thats how the screenwriters and your suspicions are probably correct. But that would be inaccurate in my opinion. In the book, before Gandalf makes Saruman turn around he does try to get him to turn back to good and to help them. When Gandalf breaks Saruman's Staff he is actually taking away his authority as head of the Order of Wizards.

The thing is, that Gandalf can't leave Saruman with any power, and neither can he leave him with any hope of reasserting himself as a ruler. So he breaks Saruman’s staff & casts him from the Order & the Council. In the book, he is hoping that Saruman will eventually turn from the path of evil. He is doing the same thing with Saruman as he did with Gollum by giving him the benefit of the doubt because "even the very wise cannot see all ends... "
Its also at this time in the book that Gandalf asserts himself as the 'White Wizard' and leader of the council.

[ItisWritten]

Maybe thats how the screenwriters and your suspicions are probably correct. But that would be inaccurate in my opinion. In the book, before Gandalf makes Saruman turn around he does try to get him to turn back to good and to help them. When Gandalf breaks Saruman's Staff he is actually taking away his authority as head of the Order of Wizards.

The thing is, that Gandalf can't leave Saruman with any power, and neither can he leave him with any hope of reasserting himself as a ruler. So he breaks Saruman’s staff & casts him from the Order & the Council. In the book, he is hoping that Saruman will eventually turn from the path of evil. He is doing the same thing with Saruman as he did with Gollum by giving him the benefit of the doubt because "even the very wise cannot see all ends... "
Its also at this time in the book that Gandalf asserts himself as the 'White Wizard' and leader of the council.

Good post. It didn't matter to me that changes were made to the story. That was unavoidable. What did was the ineffective logic that replaced the text. Rewriting a complicated tale like LOTR invites continuity errors, somewhat like trying to re-knit a sweater from the middle.

Granted, they did well enough, but their successes seemed to encourage them to place a deeper stamp on the movies, which was not necessary.

[wayfriend]

I guess so. But with no Scouring of the Shire, the choices for the disposition of Saruman were leaving him stranded in the tower (as the theatrical release did) or having him die (as the extended release did).

(I presume that having him decide to leave the dark side and help the Fellowship wasn't an option.)

Really, that I think is what drives all the other changes.

[Zarathustra]

What I remember most from the book version of this scene was Theoden's dialog with Saruman. Sure, Gandalf kicks ass. But this is one of the few scenes where we get to see some extended dialog from Theoden, and a sufficient picture of him to justify his nobility (in ways other than the battle field). Also, while Saruman was addressing him, the book had a much more powerful example of his Voice, and how Theoden's own men were starting to believe him, and think their own king sounded small by comparison. This was the coolest part of the scene, seeing (hearing?) Saruman's Voice in action. I didn't get any of that from the movie version, but instead some cheap magical displays.

Also, I had always pictured the book's version as Saruman speaking from a balcony, not the very top of the tower. The angles and perspective just don't work out right for a man standing at the top. The idea that they could carry on a conversation is ridiculous, especially for mere mortals like Theoden.

[ItisWritten]

Tolkien's detail was never more evident than in The Voice of Saruman. Reading it the first time, even I wondered if there would be some awful thing happen. Twice I knew Saruman would be resisted, and yet both times there was doubt--and I was a terminal optimist back then.

And beyond that, Saruman's bitter words to Theoden are used much later, in The Houses of Healing, to remind Eomer how Eowyn was poisoned by Saruman through Wormtongue.

There is such a wealth of story that couldn't fit in a movie. The real shame, to me, is that wizardly daring-do was substituted for meaningful dialogue.

[stonemaybe]

I can't believe that no-one in this thread has mentioned the reasons TTT was so crap were The Entmoot, Faramir, Eomer, (all three BIG characters/situations completely arsey-versey!) and elves at Helms Deep!

Grrrrrr!

I'd never dreaded a movie as much as FOTR, then never actually enjoyed one as much as FOTR. Then with such high hopes for TTT (my fave of the books), I'd never been so let down! I was terrified when I went to see ROTK, but it was better than I expected after TTT.

But on a lighter note, i hope everyone has seen this.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lfds7rdcEg

[wayfriend]

Re: Elves at Helm's Deep.

I suppose you have to be happy that they digitally removed Arwen from Helms Deep. Rumor is, there're still a few glimpses in a few frames, if you look carefully.



But anyway ... they couldn't digitally remove the rest of the elves. So they kept them in.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I'm glad they brought the Elves to Helm's Deep. Think of it as a compromise because they chose not to show the Lothlorien Elves defeating Sauron's forces from Dol Amroth (I think that's right...or is it Guldar).

I'm also glad they took Arwyn out of the real picture and just added her in those dream/flashback sequences.

[Rigel]

But on a lighter note, i hope everyone has seen this.....

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lfds7rdcEg

Even better:
They're taking the hobbits to Isengard!
Retro version!