What would you have done differently?

Post by **hierachy** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:41 am

If you were TC, what things would you have done differently?

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:37 am

I don't think if I were Thomas Covenant I would have done anything differently.

First off, I've lived all my life here on earth. Whenever I thought there was a monster somewhere, a ghost, or a UFO, there was always a logical explanation. But if I were suddenly plunged into "the land", a place that cannot exist, I would have to believe that it was a dream because the alternative would be that I'd gone insane and that would be too much to deal with.

So I'd do everything the same. I'd feel the same guilt, horror, helplessness, bravery, happiness, and love that he felt.

The other thing that is important here is that people are always criticizing others. If I were in that movie, I would have kicked that guy's butt. I wouldn't have done that, that was stupid. Etc. Then, someone in real life points a gun at you & you feel all your internal organs slip a little inside you, fall a bit, and you do exactly what your told & you don't kick the guy's butt and you do nothing especially brave at all. Or, you're driving a car like always and just take your eyes off the road for a second, and you look up & its too late. You've driven for years without a single problem and now this guy is coming at you calling you a stupid idiot.

The point is that in real life people make mistakes and they aren't always perfect or even brave. It's my opinion that this is what makes the Thomas Covenant series so compelling, because it doesn't deal with an unbelieveably perfect superhero, but a fallible person.

So I'd probably do everything that he did if I were even that lucky. And while I was raping Lena, I'd feel good enough about it to ejaculate. When it was over, I'd feel bad. Just like a hitman I used to know who would take $4,000 hits and then cry himself to sleep with his girlfriend until the pain was lowered enough for him to go on.

Post by **Loredoctor** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:51 am

Zephalephelah wrote:The point is that in real life people make mistakes and they aren't always perfect or even brave. It's my opinion that this is what makes the Thomas Covenant series so compelling, because it doesn't deal with an unbelieveably perfect superhero, but a fallible person.

I completely agree with you there. I would not do anything different, myself.

Post by **amanibhavam** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:51 am

I haven't the faintest idea what I would do. If I found myself on a rock slab high over an alien land, with a god talking to me in full contempt, I'd probably piss in my pants right away. Heck, I have lived all of my life in cities, fullblown civilisation - if I had to walk a thousand miles, sleeping on the bare ground, in rain and mud and rocks and all - I wouldn't last a week. Let alone fighting with alien craetures.

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:05 pm

amanibhavam:

I haven't the faintest idea what I would do. If I found myself on a rock slab high over an alien land, with a god talking to me in full contempt, I'd probably piss in my pants right away. Heck, I have lived all of my life in cities, fullblown civilisation - if I had to walk a thousand miles, sleeping on the bare ground, in rain and mud and rocks and all - I wouldn't last a week. Let alone fighting with alien craetures.

Just think. In all his time in the Land, we never found out if Covenant had any toilet paper!

As for me ... I don't know what I would do, honestly. I've read lots of
science fiction and fantasy about people appearing on different worlds
-- heck I've written some myself-- and there are times when I'd gladly
trade my regular life to go off and kill some Cavewights. Here on our
Earth, I can't kill the people who annoy me.

It also depends on what the Land would do with my own particular
hangups. I'm not a leper and I've never been abandoned by my
wife, but I'm sure that I've got other little psychological problems
that Foul could take advantage of.

One of the things we don't know is how a healthy person would handle
the wild magic. Covenant's hanguups kept him from using the power to
the bitter end. Hile Troy didn't seem to have any trouble with it, and
neither did Linden.

If I had access to the power upon my first appearance Drool might
have been a greasy spot on the rock, Foul an evaporated cloud, and
I've been on my way to becoming the new Evil Overlord (tm) of the
Land.

And depending on if I appeared in the Land now, or when I first
read it-- was a teenager-- Lena might have wound up as my
Royal Consort.

Post by **Dromond** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:53 pm

I imagine that it would be incredibly hard to 'go back' at the end of TPTP, with the Creator offering a life much better than TC's real one. I would have stayed.

But then no 2nd Chronicles. Or 3rd.

Post by **UrLord** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:55 pm

Well...that depends heavily on what circumstances remain in place...such as leprosy. If I were to be placed in the same kind of situation (successful writer with wife and son who loses everything due to a sickness out of my control) before coming to the Land, likely my thinking would have been along the same lines as TC's. The major difference is that I am not now the same person that TC was before he got leprosy, so things would not be exactly the same.

On the one hand, I'd probably be more of a deceptive bastard than Covenant, for instance after the Lena "incident" when Atiaran is guiding me to Revelstone and talking about ravers, I'd probably make up some story about being temporarily taken over by a Raver. It took me a while to recognize what was happening, but when I did I managed to force him from me. That would fit in well with the "hero" image they thrust upon TC/me in the beginning and may have caused Atiaran to feel somewhat better about guiding TC/me to Revelstone, since I would not EXACTLY be the one who raped Lena...Of course, the amount of lying would likely eventually backlash, but that wouldn't be something I'd expect, thinking it was a dream and all.

Post by **amanibhavam** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 6:08 pm

Wouldn't Atiaran perceive your falseness at once?

Post by **UrLord** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 6:11 pm

if you recall TC was "closed" to everyone in the Land...at least at first. They said they couldn't perceive whether he was good or ill...they couldn't tell if anything he said was a lie or not.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 9:46 pm

Oh I find this extremely interesting. Foul could do a lot with a deceiver and a Thomas that was purposefully lying would definately cause trouble for himself eventually. But I really like the human element of it, because I find it honest and real to talk about how one would attempt to hide that rape through deceit. This is very interesting.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:31 pm

I would've saved Hamako and the waynhim. There were so many deaths that TC couldn't have prevented; but he could've saved Hamako.

Post by **Dromond** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:18 pm

Yes, Hamako is one of my favorite characters in literature. Covenant even says later at some point that he should have done so, damn the cost.

But Hamako didn't want to be saved, I believe. He was twice bereft when no man should even once have taken from him what was taken. As TC says as well, he found his own answer. And then:

Spoiler

Hamako's sacrifice was key to TC understanding his own.

But of course anything any of us would do differently would not work in the confines of the story.

Post by **The Chosen** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:08 am

If I was TC I would of figured out a lot sooner that Vain was going to be the new Staff of Law.. hehe

Post by **TRC** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:27 am

I would have turned right after coming out of the telephone company

Post by **The Chosen** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:33 am

TRC wrote:I would have turned right after coming out of the telephone company

LOL!

Post by **hierachy** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:42 pm

The Chosen wrote:If I was TC I would of figured out a lot sooner that Vain was going to be the new Staff of Law.. hehe

me too

Post by **Blue_Spawn** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:23 pm

I think most of us can agree that we would not rape ppl....

And if you would then you deserve to be sh0t point blank in the face with a 10mm.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:07 pm

See, but that's just the thing, you don't know what you would do.

First, you think you are dreaming. Have you ever done something terrible in a dream? I mean come on, quit being so high and mighty. Everyone here has done something they would be greatly ashamed about if everyone knew about it.

Secondly, besides insane people, and people that believe they were abducted by aliens, tell me one person who actually believes that they were placed into a parrellel universe like "the Land". How are you going to tell me what you would or wouldn't do? People always criticize events they weren't a part of. They say, I wouldn't have done it that way. But in reality, you can't know for sure. You can intend not to do something bad, but when you have a gun in your hand, no one's around, and it's a dream anyway, why not use it? There won't be any crime. There is no crime. It's just a dream.

Besides, you can't have an erection in the first place because of the leprosy. Nerves don't regenerate. Your wife left you. Took your son away. You have an incurable disease. You've been shunned by everyone in your entire town. You will likely die horribly and terribly disfigured. Suddenly you are in a place that can't exist. Your leprosy is gone. A person finds you physically attractive. You have all these things in your life that are not fair, impossible, a dream, bad luck, hateful, hurtful, and you aren't going to react in a dream???????? Not only that, but you will judge other people who have an idea about the big picture, talk about murdering them because they were weak *IN A DREAM*!!!

Now I don't go around raping women. I don't think that beating someone up just because your too lazy to seduce them is useful to you in any way. It's illegal for good reason. I don't think about back handing women with all my force so that I can dominate them. Like most people, I ask for dates and if that doesn't work I go without or talk to the hand. I think rape is permanently damaging on many levels and I would never do it. But at least I can understand Covenant. Do you think he would have done this in "the real world", under any circumstances? Any at all?

You don't know what you would do. Personally, I'd be lucky to have the guts it took to fight in that small battle he had outside Woodhelvennin, let alone take on Foul at all. I'm not a coward by any means, and I try to stand up for people when they are outnumbered or against unfair odds to my own pain I might add, but I would not like to have an arm chopped off or worse in battle if I could help it. Survival was a very large part of Thomas Covenant's whole existence because of leprosy and I don't think those decisions came lightly to him.

Post by **Blue_Spawn** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:20 pm

I see what you mean. But I can tell you outright, there are some things that we know we could do and others that we are sure we wouldn't. I know deep inside that I would never do such a thing (in real world or virtual).

I am very deeply against the act or rape. Very deeply.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:57 am

Well I guess you have your reasons & people are different from one another. I just think that if I dream I do something then that doesn't count.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

What would you have done differently?

What would you have done differently?