Fatal Revenant; Part 2, Chapter 12: Trust Yourself

[wayfriend]

I have to admit, at this point I have no idea who the rightful bearer of the white gold is. Everything, and I mean everything, in the First and Second Chronicles taught us that giving the white gold meant giving all the power. The story depends on this utterly. With her right hand, Linden Avery kept a sure hold on her wedding ring.

The Final Chronicles has thrown this all up in the air now. Pah!

Lindens has had so many troubles with that ring. But there have been so many valid explanations for that trouble. Kevin's Dirt. Esmer. Staff Conflict. At this point, I'm just not sure if, after you take all these obstacles out of the away, if Linden actually has a rightful claim on the ring any more.

Then there's the whole technical question of whether the ring was TC's when he gave it to Linden in the first place. Knowing Donaldson, I'm not sure if that's a technicality we should worry about or not.

That being said...

Is it possible, that when Infelice said, "But his right was not yours," she was including in her judgement the assumption that Linden took the ring forcibly from Covenant?

And that it need not mean that, here and now, the same thing is true?

I guess I hope that.

[danlo]

TC is the rightful one, but I sort of took that all to mean that while the ring is in Linden's hand the Arch is safe (I know it seems *duh* to me).

Kevin's Dirt. Esmer. Staff Conflict.

All of that has Elohim connections-wonder what the Insequent think about all that...

[Demondime-a-dozen-spawn]

Kevin's Dirt. Esmer. Staff Conflict.

All of that has Elohim connections-wonder what the Insequent think about all that...

What is the Elohim connection to Kevin's Dirt? I don't recall the origins of Kevin's Dirt being disclosed to this point in the story, other than Foul's claim early in RotE that he had nothing to do with it.

If anything, Kevin's Dirt appears to be most useful to the Masters in their suppression of any use of the Earthpower. But it also seems obvious that the Masters couldn't be behind it, regardless of any benefit to them, and Linden more-or-less believed Foul when he denied any connection to it.

That leaves the Elohim and the Insequent, and I don't see any evidence up to now to lay the responsibility for Kevin's Dirt on either of them.

Then there's the whole technical question of whether the ring was TC's when he gave it to Linden in the first place. Knowing Donaldson, I'm not sure if that's a technicality we should worry about or not.

That being said...

Is it possible, that when Infelice said, "But his right was not yours," she was including in her judgement the assumption that Linden took the ring forcibly from Covenant?

Technically, Covenant gave the ring to Foul. Foul "lost" or "abandoned" it when he disssipated.

Yes, Covenant told Linden to pick it up, but since it was still Foul's "lost" property, you could say she found or claimed it.

Is three and a half thousand years long enough to negate Foul's claim to the ring?

But TC is the white gold, right?

Personally, the whole thing is an ownership nightmare. A nightmare that I have woken myself up from by just forgetting the whole mess and saying, "The ring is Linden's. Everyone else, sit down and STFU."

[wayfriend]

What is the Elohim connection to Kevin's Dirt? I don't recall the origins of Kevin's Dirt being disclosed to this point in the story, other than Foul's claim early in RotE that he had nothing to do with it.

The perpetrators of Kevin's Dirt is revealed in the FR chapter "Struggles with Wild Magic", which is near the end.

I disagree with the idea that the Elohim have anything to do with the issues with weilding the Staff and the ring at the same time, though.

If the Elohim are so sure she's not powerful enough to be a danger having the ring, which is what they claim, then why would they go to all this trouble to suppress her power? No, the people taking the trouble must fear that she is indeed capable enough otherwise.

[hearthrall antonicus]

What is the Elohim connection to Kevin's Dirt? I don't recall the origins of Kevin's Dirt being disclosed to this point in the story, other than Foul's claim early in RotE that he had nothing to do with it.

The perpetrators of Kevin's Dirt is revealed in the FR chapter "Struggles with Wild Magic", which is near the end.

I disagree with the idea that the Elohim have anything to do with the issues with weilding the Staff and the ring at the same time, though.

If the Elohim are so sure she's not powerful enough to be a danger having the ring, which is what they claim, then why would they go to all this trouble to suppress her power? No, the people taking the trouble must fear that she is indeed capable enough otherwise.

My belief is that since Esmer is the grandson of Kastenessen,who was at one time Elohim,he has to have inherited some of the Elohim characteristics.Bear with me though...the characteristics I am talking about is that the Elohim think themselves sufficient to any crisis,and also they think that the people of the Land are not worthy of knowing vital information that they inherently know.Esmer being of the Elohim,although not directly,supresses knowledge to Linden, unless he is backed into a corner.Also I believe he uses his Elohim powers to stop Linden from using the ring,in accodance with their desires

[tonyz]

The thing I was thinking, as I went through the re-read, was this:

Linden has given herself over to despair. She believes, utterly, that without Covenant she will fail. She can't do it herself; she needs him.

Somehow, I don't think so. She has the strength to do what must be done; she has the wit and the percipience to see what she must do. But she clings to Covenant instead of finding in herself, and the grace of Law and wild magic, the might and wisdom she needs.

[wayfriend]

Hey tonyz. Long time, no z.

[Vader]

"Oh Linden.” His first words to her were a hoarse gasp. “What have you done!”

To me that doesn't sound accusing but rather full of pitifulness. If Covenant really accused her of having messed it all up he wouldn't have started with "Oh Linden" but rather with a "hellfire". Thus to me it looks as if he isn't so much concerned about the consequences Linden's action have on the world's fate but rather is worried about what she has done to herself.

So I conclude from this that she has done the right thing but will have to pay a high price fo it.

[dlbpharmd]

"Oh Linden.” His first words to her were a hoarse gasp. “What have you done!”

To me that doesn't sound accusing but rather full of pitifulness. If Covenant really accused her of having messed it all up he wouldn't have started with "Oh Linden" but rather with a "hellfire". Thus to me it looks as if he isn't so much concerned about the consequences Linden's action have on the world's fate but rather is worried about what she has done to herself.

So I conclude from this that she has done the right thing but will have to pay a high price fo it.

Good post. Makes alot of sense.

[hearthrall antonicus]

heres an interesting thought to chew on...

Any one who is summoned to the Land from outside(Covenant, Hile Troy, Linden,maybe Roger& Joan ) is tied to the Summoner. This being said my query is : do we know if that same summoning law would correspond to some one being Resurrected also? Covenant asks Linden at the end of WGW "Linden, I don't want to be resurrected"This passage has always spooked me. I damn sure knew that if he was going to be resurrected it would be agaist his wishes and if he was, would he know of a potential Law breaking or its consequences from the "other side" of life? Just food for thought.....H

[wayfriend]

This being said my query is : do we know if that same summoning law would correspond to some one being Resurrected also?

I think so. I had dug up some clues which pointed to this conclusion, but dang if I can remember where I left them.

Edit: Ah, yes. FR, Part 2, Chapter 5. Linden goes to the Hall of Gifts with Stave, and starts to discuss the Necessity of Freedom and other topics. In the dissection, I wrote:

Linden goes on to ponder the “necessity of freedom” a theme revisited from the 2nd Chrons.

Indeed. She touches on the Necessity of Freedom. However, this train of thought follows hard on her admission that she knows why Roger doesn't want her to go to Andelain -- and what she would do there. And her question about how many times Covenant was summoned to the Land. And she talks about "Foul's Mistake".

"But when Covenant and I came here together, we were summoned by Lord Foul. Back then, I didn't wonder about that. But now I think he made a mistake. It may have been his biggest mistake." Like Covenant before her, Linden had been freed when her summoner was defeated. "He tied our lives to his.

"That's why he used Joan this time. Roger's mother."

He tied our lives to his. The summoner's life is tied to whom they summon. This gives arise to the rebound effect, that when the summoner dies, the summoned is returned. But it may also have other profound effects, effects which we surely will explore. After all, all that mechanization to summon Linden through Joan is for a reason! As Donaldson said in the GI, "He made that mistake once already: he isn’t likely to make it again."

So when you put this chain of thought together -- Andelain, the krill, Roger's fear, summoning Covenant, the Necessity of Freedom, what I think we can conclude is that here, at this time, she knows what she is going to do in Andelain.

She knows, and she's concerned if its the right thing to do. That's what all of this discussion with Stave is really about. Despite Stave's suredness that it is about Jeremiah.

Particularly, she's wondering if Covenant will be free, and she's wondering how her life will be tied to Covenant's. And she's wondering if Foul has a claim on Covenant. And if the orcrest Test of Truth can help her discover if it is so.

[hearthrall antonicus]

Many thanks Wayfriend ,many thanks. An excellent dissertation on your part. And heres the setup: Liand has been getting very hot about using the orcrest test of truth . So it would appear to me that the test of truth will be CRUCIAL at a later point. Perhaps in the determination of Lord foul and his machinations, Ravers maybe even Longwrath . But I digress.

[wayfriend]

Many thanks Wayfriend ,many thanks. An excellent dissertation on your part. And heres the setup: Liand has been getting very hot about using the orcrest test of truth . So it would appear to me that the test of truth will be CRUCIAL at a later point. Perhaps in the determination of Lord foul and his machinations, Ravers maybe even Longwrath . But I digress.

My guess is that she most wants to give the Test of Truth to Jeremiah. Because she wonders if he's Foul's willing slave or his unwilling one.

[dlbpharmd]

Let's talk about Elena for a moment.

From this chapter:

Near him walked a woman; surely Elena? But she was not the High Lord whom Covenant had described as one of his Dead, a figure of love and loveliness. Rather she appeared as she must have been when Covenant had destroyed the Staff of Law, Berek's Staff, tearing loose her last grasp on life; exposing her soul to the horror of what she had done. Her hair was rent with woe: bleeding galls marked her face as if she had tried to claw away her failures. As she entered the vale and paused with Caer-Caveral, her form flickered, alternately lit and obscured as though clouds scudded across her spectral moonshine.

Why does she look this way? Indeed, in TWL she didn't look anything like this at all (see "The Andelainian Hills.") IIRC (I don't have TWL in front of me) her gift to Covenant then was the location of Lord Foul in Kiril Threndor and also advice to care for Linden so that "in the end {Linden] may heal us all."

Now we see a woman filled with abject despair - she has torn her hair and clawed at her face. Why? It has to be more than her past service to Foul. She would feel that sorrow more acutely in TWL. Could it be that she realizes she gave Covenant bad advice in TWL?

[wayfriend]

I don't know the answer, but I am sure it has something to do with Linden. There are many oblique remarks, in the story and in the GI, that which Dead, and how they appear, depends on whom has summoned them.