Possible Solutions to Moviemaking Problems

[Black Asgard]

Hello, all.

I’m new to this particular site, but I’m not new to the Chronicles. I’ve been a fan of them for almost three years (it doesn’t sound like much, but I only got them four years ago). Very recently I discovered the second Chronicles, and the Last Chronicles.

My father, before he passed out of my life, gave his old copies of Lord Foul’s Bane, Illearth War, and Power that Preserves to me. That was in the 10th grade. I’m now a sophomore in college.

They’re old copies with the original covers—at least I think they’re the originals. LFB has the Wightwarren bridge, TIW has Caerroil Wildwood, and TPTP has the Colossus. Anyhow, yes, I’ve read the first Chronicles three times since then, each time coming to a deeper love and understanding for the text.

I’ve also read a few of the other threads around here about the problems with making the first Chronicles into a trilogy. I’ve applied a lot of thought to that myself, because, while I’m only familiar with Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings in passing (I read it in the 6th grade—7 years ago), I do enjoy the movies very much, especially the extended Director’s cut editions that have some of the stranger, Del Toro-esque creatures, like the Mouth of Sauron.

The biggest problem that comes to mind when considering a Covenant movie is this: they’re very dramatic. Covenant, Mhoram, and even Hile Troy to a lesser extent, are very emotional men. Covenant is frequently brought to spitting curses, while Mhoram is on the verge of tears. How would you portray those intense emotions in the movie? It’s not an easy question. The nature of text allowed SRD to explore those emotions in ways the silver screen simply can’t. What to do about it?

Let it be. Let up on the intensity of their emotions, and strive to make others less wooden. I don’t mean to insult the other characters in the trilogy, but those not standing in the limelight tend to only make a few emotional inputs. In the visual realm, the characters won’t be merely standing there, and interaction of emotion will be easy and strengthen the atmosphere to a similar effect as having, say, Mhoram narrate to himself his terror at Satansfist’s horde sitting plumb right outside the gates of Revelstone. Instead of just Mhoram, you externalize some of that dialogue and get some of the others into the ‘discussion’ as it were.

It’s not a perfect solution, but it would allow for some of the intensity to be maintained—albeit in a different form—while still remaining true enough to the Chronicles.



Another problem I’ve read about is conveying the various ‘gifts’ of the Land; that is, being able to see the vitality of the Land and the people and places within it, seeing the leprosy be stricken back, and other problems. I’ve given them some thought, and found a few possible solutions.

In the case of the vitality-vision, there is a simple answer: adjust the colors. When the movie begins in our ‘Real World’, play with more neutral, grim colors. Browns, grays, muted basic colors; stay away as best you can from raw primary colors. When Covenant arrives in the Land, and up until Lena applies Hurtloam and he swoons, leave it that way. When he comes around, heighten the vibrancy—just a bit. Until he’s with Atarian in Andelain, only bring it up in small incriments. By then, with a bright, vivid color scheme, the Land will seem energetic and strong compared to the weak coloration of our own world.

Now, this has some downsides. Firstly, dark, muddled colors often make it hard to see. It can also convey the wrong message; grim colors might lead some people to pass the movie off as unnecessarily negative (rather, the Chronicles is about the exploration of responsibility to self and others, about morality and the nature of the duties of those with power, and redemption—I’d say positive subjects with a cynical sheen), or as kitsch, because playing with the color palate has become so popular (300, Sin City, the Spirit—coincidentally, I believe those are all Frank Miller movies, but there are more). However, it serves to bolster the text-to-film link, I think, so it might be worth it. The other con that I see is that the producers might let that coloration get too vibrant, and make it look gaudy. For an example: the 1937 Adventures of Robin Hood starring Errol Flynn. The story is timeless, and the production is flawless, but the coloration is just a bit too strong for my tastes.

The fact that many parts of the movie will have to be rendered via computer imaging is a boon to this idea. It allows for more precise manipulation of colors. For example, ur-viles and other servants of the Despiser can be darker in color, whereas Dukkah Waynhim, if we push into TIW can be made in a different color. Dying and corrupt things can be portrayed with a different tone, a darker and more pallid tone than those healthy and vital. Imagine the contrast of the dying tree Covenant sees in LFB on the way to Andelain and the rest of the verd around it.

This is also supported, I’d argue, by the text itself; Donaldson plays a lot with his usage of color. The trees in Morinmoss Forest come to mind immediately, as does the Sanguine (and later Emerald) Moon.

In response to the healing of Covenant’s leprosy by Hurtloam and the sheer vitality of the Land, I give this simple explanation: a good actor who understands the text. I was reading an interview with the creative team behind Disney’s recent ‘UP!’, and they said that the old man in the movie moves stiffly at the beginning of the book, but loosens up and moves deftly by the end, as a kind of semblance of his sojourn and redemption. I was intrigued by this—this is more or less what happens with Covenant during the first two books. Using the shots of the ‘Real World’ where Covenant goes about his life, trekking into town and drinking at the night club, we would see him stiff and unyielding to the fluidity of natural movement. Like the muddy color palate, this would be juxtaposed to a looser movement post-Hurtloam where he begins to grip things, moves easier and quicker, and uses his hands more. I noticed that he stomps around a lot in LFB, but by the end, the entire Quest sprints through the Wightwarrens, and only Covenant’s general unhealthiness slows him, not his leprosy.

To be perfectly honest, I’m on the fence about whether or not a movie should be made. If one is made, I think it needs a producer and director as devoted (insert obsessed if you so choose) as Peter Jackson was with the Tolkien books.

I respect Tolkien, and from time to time return to him (specifically the stories contained in the Books of Lost Tales), but Donaldson is my absolute favorite. The difference, I often tell people I recommend the Chronicles to, is that “Donaldson paints portraits and Tolkien draws diagrams”.

I understand that there are far more ways to screw these movies up than there are to make them correctly, but like all of you, I secretly want to hear Saltheart Foamfollower laugh, to see Trell Atarian-mate struggle, and to feel the intensity of Mhoram’s gold-flecked stare. Oh, and to experience Covenant’s grieving rage.

Black Asgard

[sindatur]

Welcome to the site, nice incites.

I actually inherited the First two Trilogies from my brother who passed in late 1995. Read them twice within the first 5 years, but, only had the opportunity to read the two books thus far in the Final Chronicles since then.

I believe the biggest problems are:

Being able to pay enough attention to the rape to give the proper air to it in the plot, without putting people off (it takes a certain type of reader to be able to get through first book. I personally put it down twice, because the rape seemed so gratuitous (as the beginning of the Gap also seems). And you need as many viewers as possible to sell tickets to pay for the effects to do it right.

Plus the fact that so much of it takes place in Covenant's mind andwatering down the aspect of it being a dream, where he's the only real one, always from his perspective.

My mom actually felt the books were too depressing, there's never any kind of victory that lasts, so nothing to hoep for

[Black Asgard]

I'd argue that there are victories that last, though they're not the hard-fought and bloodied victories that appear obvious (as in, if the battle of Doriendor Korishev and later Cravenhaw had prevented utterly the seige of Revelstone, or if the Staff of Law hadn't been lost in vain). But they're there. You just have to boil the story down to what's important.

Covenant regains his ability to love and care for other human beings, and forgives himself. Mhoram comes into his own, discovers the secret that Kevin's Lore had withheld.

The problem of the rape is the biggest one, I think, though I find the fact that the presence of a ring is absolutely absurd. Many science fiction movies have laser guns, A.I. or spaceships--I fail to see why a magic ring is considered so unique to Tolkien? Magic rings go back for centuries before that, and thousands of years in the form of symbology--specifically, the sun (which I found interesting, given that the sun is white-yellow and moves in an arc...Covenant makes my inner symbologist quiver).

Turning the rape into conecentual intercourse, as I've seen posited elswhere, is not a good idea. It would be like corrupting Aragorn, or presenting Han Solo as a legitimate cargo hauler.

Well, I those are the best ideas I can come up with, anyhow. I wonder if starting at the Second Chronicles might be easier? I've noticed that, because Avery is about and around, the story is more externalized.

[Rigel]

I wonder if starting at the Second Chronicles might be easier? I've noticed that, because Avery is about and around, the story is more externalized.

Slowly backing away from the inevitable THOOLAH flaming...

[amanibhavam]

Black Asgard, welcome!

To your comment about the characters being very emotional: I fail to see how this is a problem. Could you elaborate?

The idea of toning down the colours in the scenes in the real world is a good idea. It worked in the Matrix: the scenes in the Matrix had a distinct greenish-bluish tinge. And it does not have to be very overt: a subtle change may be enough.

The rape has to stay: it has too many consequences that are key to the story.

[Demondime-a-dozen-spawn]

I wonder if starting at the Second Chronicles might be easier? I've noticed that, because Avery is about and around, the story is more externalized.

Slowly backing away from the inevitable THOOLAH flaming...

That actually makes a lot of sense from a purely Hollywood, hero and heroine, love interest, money-making perspective.

[Akasri]

Throw in Will Ferrell as TC and Megan Fox as Linden. Mix in a few Ewoks and you got yourself a summer box office winner!!

/duck
/run

Seriously, though - I'm not sure the rape is the biggest hurdle to overcome in a TC movie. Other movies have dealt with dark themes and if it's handled appropriately, it can be very powerful. The biggest problem with making a movie of the Chronicles (IMO) is that so much of it is internalized in Thomas Covenant. So much of the first chronicles is about how he feels, and how things he experiences affect him internally. Not saying it couldn't be done, but it would be hard to do it well.

And to be honest, the Chronicles are not the most popular fantasy series out there. They are an acquired taste, even amongst hard-core fantasy readers. So there's not a huge clamoring from the public to see the books filmed (this site aside of course ) as there was with LOTR.

The best chance that these books have to be filmed, in a way that does them justice, is if a pay cable network buys the rights and develops a series. HBO/Showtime/etc. would be the perfect place for a series like this. A lot of the series you see on these networks have dark, almost anti-heroes (Dexter, Sopranos, etc.). The problem is that the books aren't "mainstream" enough for anyone to take the project on.

Maybe if A Song of Ice and Fire gets made (wasn't HBO working on this?) it'll open the door a bit... we'll see.

[Rigel]

And to be honest, the Chronicles are not the most popular fantasy series out there. They are an acquired taste, even amongst hard-core fantasy readers.

The problem with "hard-core" genre readers is, they expect "genre."

It seems that most fantasy novels attempt to follow Tolkien's world-building methodology; that is, the novel is a vehicle to convey the world. Reading one is somewhat aking to taking a guided tour. Either that, or they're what's known as "Swords & sorcery", trivial adventures.

Sci-Fi has the advantage that the tradition there is to examine abstract ideas (on culture & society, especially) in unfamiliar contexts, making them more intellectually satisfying.

[hue of fuzzpaws]

As with LOTR TCTC need to be done in different formats before it becomes

of interest for movie making. I know that the chronicles have been done as

audio books, but what about a radio dramatisation of the first chronicles as a

start? As far as tv series, did not some one butcher the earthsea books for tv?

[Black Asgard]

Ah, forgive the brevity of my sprach.

In reference to the emotion of the characters being a problem, I mean only in conveyance to the audience. Any movie made commercially now has to be able to appeal to sentiment that the chattel will understand.

Before I move on, let me demonstrate the difference between sentiment and emotion.

"Sentiment" is what we think we're supposed to feel. Because it is expected, both internally and externally, it is phony, and we are able to, in limited degrees, control it.

"Emotion" is what we do feel, and it comes from the external world, molding us to it. We have no control over it, and through it we can see truth in ourselves.

"Sentiment" is what you feel when you see a movie where the main character's loved one dies. "Emotion" is what you feel when your own experiences from a similar situation overwhelm you.

If you've never been ravaged by an emotion before--be it black grief, boundless joy, or warm contentedness--you might count yourself as one of the chattel, and be fair to yourself.


So, the issue lies in conveying the EMOTION of the characters to an audience that feels almost exclusively phony sentiment. The actors can be the most heartfelt individuals, the greatest conveyors of raw human energy, but they have against them the unreflective American Apathy that will, to its merit, *try* to understand what the characters are feeling, but will evidently fall short, confusing them and turning them off to the plot and characters.

Did that make any sense?

[wayfriend]

Wow, BG. You're pretty harsh on movie viewers. Or, perhaps, someone is, someone who you agree with.

It does seem challenging to express the emotions of the Chronicles to movie goers, if you accept the assumption that they are incapable of feeling any emotion that they haven't experienced personally. There probably aren't too many lepers out there who had their nerves regenerated and then raped a young girl. Not enough for a base audience, anyway.

I can't agree with your premises, though. Movies (art) finds ways to convey feelings, the emotions of situations which you have not personally experienced already.

Is it perfect? No. Then again, do you want it to be? Do you really want to really feel the horror and sadness of losing a loved one? for example.

[Black Asgard]

BG?

I'm not harsh on the viewers, I'm harsh on the makers. You can't blame the chattel for eating the poison they're fed; they don't know any better--they just want to get fed. If the metaphor carries, anyhow.

The point wasn't that you have to BE someone to sympathize with them, but rather that most people can't tell the differences between emotion and sentiment (because they haven't been given the chance); between art and kitsch.

Anyway, I this is all conjecture based on a dead movie. Oh well.

[wayfriend]

BG?

Black Asgard, of course! (Should have been BA. Sorry.)

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

A film could definately convey the emotions...if it took the time to...especially the beginning where we sempathyse with TC, going through his trials and transformations...

...if rushed, yeah, just sentiment