Do you think Trell ever forgave Covenant?

[CovenantJr]

Nope absolutely not, and with good reason. if I was trell, I would have killed him when I had the chance.

Agreed. Covenant destroyed pretty much every individual component of Trell's life. While some were able to forgive Covenant because he ultimately worked (or, earlier, was capable of working) a much greater good, I think the losses Trell suffered personally were too many and too huge for forgiveness. As Hierachy said, in Trell's shoes I would have ripped Covenant apart.

[Ur Dead]

Trell didn't forgive Covenant.
He couldn't forgive what he couldn't forget.

TC raped his daughter.
Lena choose TC over her virtue, family and it drove her mad.
TC was the cause of Atiaran death.
He was a broken man when he attacked Covenant (wanting some revenge)
but after Bannor saved TC and Hile Troy invoke the OoP that adding insult to injury.
After losing his grandaughter, he didn't have much to hold on to.
When the Raver's army was besieging the keep, he fell into dispair.
He reasoned that the enemy wouldn't take a prize he held dear.
So enacted his personal ritual.

3500 years later while helping TC , I had got the impression that he and Atiaran
went along only because they felt that TC owed them. Lena did it out of forgiveness and hope.

[StevieG]

Good post Ur Dead! When you list it out like that, there really couldn't be any way to forgive TC.

[Krazy Kat]

It looks like I'm standing alone in this thread. I'm not intentionaly being controvertial. By the very nature of the first Chronicles, all the characters were forced into a position of finding hope in the face of despair.

To put it another way, when the Giant Raver held a piece of the illearth stone above Mhoram's head, what stalled the killing stroke?
I'd like to think that it was Trell who helped give Mhoram those few precious moments he needed to slay the Raver, but I know this isn't true. But Trell did pass on some secret knowledge to Tohm and I believe this piece of knowledge came from the wellspring of hope. The source of inner strength that comes from a love for the Land - and yes, forgiveness towards Thomas Covenant, the Land's last hope.

[SGuilfoyle1966]

Well, we don't know what happened after the Land was saved.
Maybe, when the Land was saved, Trell was healed, somewhat, but I don't think forgiveness is part of it.

[peter]

Trells despair had gone beyond the point of forgivness and redemption. It had reached that point where, akin to sunlight focused through a lens it had become every thing that he was, is, or ever would be. That was why he was able to enact the ritual of dessecration - he had become Fouls servant in a way beyond that which any Raver could ever achieve. Perhaps this was Fouls intention all along - indeed, did he have a hand in Covenants ravaging of Lena with that very purpouse in mind?

[Rocksister]

Trell never forgave him and that's how Covenant wanted it. He was so tired of people treating him like he could do no wrong because he was a savior of some kind. He could relate to Trell. He probably secretly desired a confrontation with Trell so he could get punished.

[tinhamodic]

Here is the genius of SRD because with this he also addresses the issue of the after life and the soul. In the Land when you 'die' is there something like 'heaven' or a 'hell'? It seems to me like those who sinned or are guilty don't want to 'cross over' and sort of like stuck in purgatory. Also I'm sure the dead are privy to many things that even the living with the power of foresight cannot see including past events. Dead Trell could probably see everything in the past and maybe some parts of the future hence that is why they aren't allow to speak unless certain conditions allow them to speak ie in 2nd Chronicles when the dead spoke to Covenant.
So did Trell forgive Covenant? I say yes. If he didn't why would he keep telling TC to eat the Alianthas? Because he knows TC wasn't evil but seriously flawed and know TC is still vital for the survival of the land. But Trell can forgive TC because now he is reunited with his family in death (except for Elena - please read Fatal Revenant)
SRD made a point that souls can be redeemed ie the dead of Coercri.
Trell just broke because of what happened to him, he wasn't essentially evil.

[Earthfriend]

Ah, your heart is bigger than mine, tinhamodic! Just re-read the passage where Trell, Lena and Atiaran compel Covenant to eat Aliantha, and nothing there indicates to me that Trell ever forgave Covenant. (The Wounded Land, Part Two: VISION, FOURTEEN: Pursuit page 260-262, 1980.)

And yes, I will read Fatal Revenant. When I'm ready to. Still a bit nervous, if you must know.

It looks like I'm standing alone in this thread. I'm not intentionaly being controvertial. By the very nature of the first Chronicles, all the characters were forced into a position of finding hope in the face of despair.

Agreed, but not all the characters forced into that position chose hope. I feel Trell chose Despair, and a lesser man would have been destroyed completely by that choice.

To put it another way, when the Giant Raver held a piece of the illearth stone above Mhoram's head, what stalled the killing stroke?
I'd like to think that it was Trell who helped give Mhoram those few precious moments he needed to slay the Raver, but I know this isn't true. But Trell did pass on some secret knowledge to Tohm and I believe this piece of knowledge came from the wellspring of hope. The source of inner strength that comes from a love for the Land - and yes, forgiveness towards Thomas Covenant, the Land's last hope.

You've convinced me, Krazy Kat. How could Mhoram not have drawn strength from helping to deter Trell from his Ritual, or the mind-sharing that epiphany enabled? And Trell did withstand despair, at the end. But I fear his forbearance sits heavily upon him.

[Blackhawk]

In andelain, I think He did ..in the only way he could, in silence though it took three thousand years or so, he did show up to guide TC through Andelain... and maybe it wasnt even forgiveness... any one of TCs dead could have walked with him through Andelain..but it was Trell Atiaran and Lena.... now that they were re united in death was it possible for them to forgive or was it necessity of the land? TC driving Lena and Atiaran to insanity or extreme infatuation and eventually death...in turn Driving Trell insane, I think that was Trells reason for hatred - the loss of his family..the ones he loved most in the land. and once he got his family back in Andelain as Sunder did with Hollian did that heal him in some way? at the end of his physical existence he died hating TC without a doubt.. having saved the land or not it didnt help him get his loved ones back in life.... could you forgive someone if they sacrificed your family but saved the world? after all what good is the world to a person who has lost everything he loves..

[peter]

On the point of sacrificing Trells family in order to save the world I think it is worth remembering that Lord Morham would not sacrifice the life of even one little girl - and one not even from his own world (one of the most touching scenes in the whole series to be found in TPTP) - in order to save the land. Also, the evil of Covenants act can never be expiated under the excuse of saving the land (not that I believe this is what you suggest Blackhawk), and thus cannot be weighed in the argument of fogivness of Covenant. If Trell ever forgave Covenant - and I have my doubts - it would have been all to do with his ownunsurpassing humanity and not because any such crime as this can ever be 'paid off'.

In andelain, I think He did ..in the only way he could, in silence though it took three thousand years or so, he did show up to guide TC through Andelain... and maybe it wasnt even forgiveness... any one of TCs dead could have walked with him through Andelain..but it was Trell Atiaran and Lena.... now that they were re united in death was it possible for them to forgive or was it necessity of the land? TC driving Lena and Atiaran to insanity or extreme infatuation and eventually death...in turn Driving Trell insane, I think that was Trells reason for hatred - the loss of his family..the ones he loved most in the land. and once he got his family back in Andelain as Sunder did with Hollian did that heal him in some way? at the end of his physical existence he died hating TC without a doubt.. having saved the land or not it didnt help him get his loved ones back in life.... could you forgive someone if they sacrificed your family but saved the world? after all what good is the world to a person who has lost everything he loves..