Linden getting stabbed in the hand

Post by **DWOLF** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:00 pm

When Linden got stabbed in the hand by the croyels stick she was standing over the Earthblood. This has to have some importance that isnt mentioned yet. Maybe it is somehow linked to Sunders and the Claves use of blood later. javascript:emoticon(':oops:')

Post by **Vraith** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:20 pm

DWOLF wrote:When Linden got stabbed in the hand by the croyels stick she was standing over the Earthblood. This has to have some importance that isnt mentioned yet. Maybe it is somehow linked to Sunders and the Claves use of blood later. javascript:emoticon(':oops:')

hmmm...now I'm going to have to look at this...something definitely to think about since wounds often have much importance...and was there something about hand wounds for Linden before she came to the Land in ROTE? or am I creating a false memory?

Post by **rdhopeca** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:39 pm

Vraith wrote:
DWOLF wrote:When Linden got stabbed in the hand by the croyels stick she was standing over the Earthblood. This has to have some importance that isnt mentioned yet. Maybe it is somehow linked to Sunders and the Claves use of blood later. javascript:emoticon(':oops:')
hmmm...now I'm going to have to look at this...something definitely to think about since wounds often have much importance...and was there something about hand wounds for Linden before she came to the Land in ROTE? or am I creating a false memory?

Hand wounds are prevalent: Jeremiah's burned hand, Kastenessen and Roger's hand switch, Roger's suggestion that Linden cut off her hand, etc...

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:59 pm

I don't think it's significant myself.
I actually didn't like that part.
The fact that the croyel could stab into the SoL like that (through Linden's hand) made the Staff seem puny to me.
I know the Staff isn't beyond harm but I'd like to think that it would take more than a lone croyel to damage it like that.

Post by **Orlion** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:07 pm

Could be saviour symbolism

Post by **wayfriend** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:14 pm

My impression of the stabbed hand is that it was an outcome, not a beginning.

Linden and Roger, revealed, were exchanging words. But when Linden asks, "What was so important about keeping me away from Andelain?", Jeremiah stabs Linden. This marks the end of civilities, and battle ensues.

So it seems like this event story-wise was a signal to start the battle; the croyel stepped over the line in the sand.

When Caerroil later says "the sigil of the Land's need has been placed upon her", Linden wonders if she means her stabbed hand. That doesn't necessarilly mean he was, and it usually doesn't, and in this case I don't think so.

If the stabbed hand is to be significant at a later time, I think Donaldson would have mentioned something that would seem significant, but oddball to say, so that later on it would help us connect to this scene and go "click". But he doesn't, AFAICT.

(As opposed to, for example, Linden over and over wondering if what she said to the Sandgorgons was a mistake. We can tell that's going to come back. Because Donaldson had made it significant.)

Post by **ninjaboy** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:59 am

HLTolkien, the Staff was not damaged by the attack. The bit of wood went through Linden's hand, but was turned aside by the slick nature of the Staff.

And I don't expect there to be any further significance either.. it was a minor injury and easily healed.. by magic!

Though.. Why would the croyel attempt to stab her? It displayed the capacity for theurgies which would have killed a mortal not protected by a combination of Earthblood, Law and viscious passion. Why would it risk a physical attack?

Post by **SkurjMaster** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:36 pm

Could Jeremiah have taken momentary control and stabbed Linden for some as-yet-unknown reason?

Post by **SkurjMaster** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:31 pm

Posters,

Is it possible that Jerry is struggling inside and that the attack was actually prompted by him instead of the croyel? Maybe doing something drastic as the only way he could express himself.

Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:34 pm

SkurjMaster wrote:Posters,

Sorry for the double-post with the same question. For some reason my last post didn't seem to be there.

SkurjM

It's okay...everyone's doing it...

Post by **Vraith** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:01 pm

ninjaboy wrote:HLTolkien, the Staff was not damaged by the attack. The bit of wood went through Linden's hand, but was turned aside by the slick nature of the Staff.

And I don't expect there to be any further significance either.. it was a minor injury and easily healed.. by magic!

Though.. Why would the croyel attempt to stab her? It displayed the capacity for theurgies which would have killed a mortal not protected by a combination of Earthblood, Law and viscious passion. Why would it risk a physical attack?

I don't think it was a risk. Linden was theurgically potent, but physically weaker, vulnerable to the croyel, and there was a chance it could disarm her, make her release the staff.

Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:08 pm

The stabbed hand is a chronic religious reference used by SRD analogous to the wounding of Christ's hands.

Post by **wayfriend** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:22 pm

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:The stabbed hand is a chronic religious reference used by SRD analogous to the wounding of Christ's hands.

Was someone else ever stabbed in the hand?

Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:49 pm

wayfriend wrote:
TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:The stabbed hand is a chronic religious reference used by SRD analogous to the wounding of Christ's hands.
Was someone else ever stabbed in the hand?

Good question. There aren't many hand stabbings, mainly hand injuries in general: Covenant primarily, and someone mentioned the burned hands, and there's the maiming of the Bloodguard hands.

Someone else here asked another good question: if Jeremiah had somehow taken control and stabbed Linden in the hand. If so, then either the croyel released him momentarily or Jeremiah has been in control all along and the croyel is a fake. Either way, the question agrees with my thesis that Jeremiah does not want to be rescued because he is there voluntarily, seduced by the Land, LF, or both.

Post by **SGuilfoyle1966** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:09 am

I don't think it was a risk. Linden was theurgically potent, but physically weaker, vulnerable to the croyel, and there was a chance it could disarm her, make her release the staff.

I know exactly what was posted here, but inside my head, I thought, "Theurgically potent? Thuffering Thuccotash."

Post by **brother52** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:46 pm

my interpretation was that the stabbing of the hand was part of the changing of the staff and Linden was being fused with it.

could be wrong though

Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:32 am

Heres my take on this subject...Linden injured her hand while her keys were in it ,in Runes, during the lightning storm and subsequent burning of Haven Farm. She slammed it into the dashboard, and even Roger noticed it before Lyttons men shot him and presumably everyone else, i. e. Linden, Jeremiah...etc. Now, this being said, and with previous injuries that are duplicated throughout the books, would this injury mimic her croyel stabbing injury ? Also of note, the stabbing itself was totally out of place in this scene. It didnt seem to flow right with the narration...

Post by **wayfriend** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:07 pm

hearthrall antonicus wrote:Heres my take on this subject...Linden injured her hand while her keys were in it ,in Runes, during the lightning storm and subsequent burning of Haven Farm. She slammed it into the dashboard, and even Roger noticed it before Lyttons men shot him and presumably everyone else, i. e. Linden, Jeremiah...etc. Now, this being said, and with previous injuries that are duplicated throughout the books, would this injury mimic her croyel stabbing injury ? Also of note, the stabbing itself was totally out of place in this scene. It didnt seem to flow right with the narration...

That's a really interesting connection to contemplate. I just wonder if the wounds correspond closely enough. One was just a gouge in the palm of her hand, the other was a stab through the hand entirely.

Also, since presumably by now her hand has healed, it apparently didn't signal her return from the Land, nor, thinking of Hile Troy's final end, of her death in the Land.

Post by **Loresraat** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:35 pm

Hmmmm. Roger saw the nick in her hand during the summoning and was strongly convinced that it portended some important victory for him. (I beleive he crowed something to the effect of "aha! you're doomed, and you don't even know it yet!") And IIRC correctly, there were hints that Roger, the croyel or both of them had some deeper, more hidden purpose in wounding her hand during the battle beneath Skywier. I do think both are/will be significant, but I'm not sure we know how yet. Like some posters above, I'm not convinced that the wound was the "mark of the Land's need" the Forrestal was referring to.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Linden getting stabbed in the hand

Linden getting stabbed in the hand

Re: Linden getting stabbed in the hand

Re: Linden getting stabbed in the hand

Attacking Linden

When Jerry's attack!

Re: Double post

Stabbing Lindens hand

Re: Stabbing Lindens hand