Ravers of the Lost Ark

[Gareth Yaztromo]

I read they were born of a Giant somewhere but I forget exactly, though it may of been on the net, which is not a really trustworthy source to go off. Flawed birth is most likely what happened... and even though they didn't serve Foul in the begining they could of been born hateful because of him.

[danlo]

They inhabited the bodies of Giant triplets xtermely rare in the reproductive annuals of the Giants!

[amanibhavam]

I don't remember the Chronicles ever stating that the Ravers had been born of a Giant; I seem to recall a "long-forgotten mother" or something, which implies, that they _had_ a mother.

[danlo]

I said inhabited but that was fairly recent in their long history--they were never born of a Giant, if "They have no bodies of their own, and their spirits wander until they find living beings that they can master." LFB pg100--how were they ever born? That same passage also says they cannot die while LF still lives--but it doesn't say that they die if LF dies-they just go on living but r then killable! Kibble?

[CovenantJr]

Amy is right, I seem to remember some mention of the Ravers originally being born, but not of a Giant. The Ravers were in the Land before LF, so certainly long before the Unhomed. We don't really know anything about the origins of the Ravers at all - that is something I'd like to see some mention of in the Third Chronicles...

[JD]

Danlo is correct. The three Ravers mastered the triplets by using the pieces of the Illearth Stone, without the Stone no Raver could have mastered a Giant. I don't recall reading of any origin of where or when the Ravers came from.

[Lord Mhoram]

I do, JD! Apparently, they were conceived as triplets in the Spoiled PLains. They hated all living things, and eventually teamed up w/the Despiser, and became his "humble servants". We all know what happens next....but will they come back?

[Skyweir]

yes Mhoram is right! .. they were triplets .. and lost their mother from memory .. and hated all living things .. and did join up with the despiser to reac havoc on the Land.

I definitely think they will be back .. and why wouldnt they??

[Zahir]

My own impression is that the Ravers are malign individually, but have been more-or-less enslaved by Foul. I also get the impression they are kinda addicted to him in some mystical/magickal way.

I also got the impression that Foul chose to assail the Land because the Lords were there, and so was the Earthpower and the great Forests. Plus there were all those goodies (to him, anyway) underneath Kiril Threndor. In other words, he set up operations where he'd be likely to do most damage.

JMHO

[onions]

The Ravers are addicted to the attar surrounding Foul - the smell of death.
It says so at the end of the 2nd Chronicles. Linden is forced to suck in the smell as if she loves it.

onions

[Skyweir]

ewwww .. nasty!!

[Lord Mhoram]

I dont think we should take that literally. The Ravers were clearly not enslaved to Foul, they were indivual, and had designs on dethroning him and taking over, one of the points of the character Gibbon. About that smell, if one was to take that passage seriously, it would explain one of the reasons WHY they 'served' Lord Foul.

[danlo]

bump

[duchess of malfi]

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I don't think the inhabitants of the Land were so honorable before the Desecration. Think about Japanese history. The Samurai Era is kind of glorified, the Code, etc. But the reality is much like fuedal Europe, humanity at it's murderous and greedy norm. And just like now, the romantic version of the past would help the current generation temporarily 'behave', and then of course an enemy unites.

As far as the Ravers, I agree they're seperate and would suplant Foul in a heart beat...but I never felt that SRD's, 'oh they've always been evil, earth haters' really cut it.

[mubble]

Hows this for a take on their origin:
Three brothers were spawned in the Spoiled Plains from the coupling of a malevolent witch and father of the King of Doriendor Corishev. The witch was later disowned by the King and she was mightally aggrieved. With that she cursed her offspring to forever inflict slaughter and misery on the King, his family and their descendants. When they came of age, fostered and nurtered on hatred of the Land and all its inhabitants they began a reign of terror on the Kings own. Learning of their birthplace the King set a trap using their mother and capturing them, tortured and decapitated the witch before their eyes. Filled with wrath and desire for revenge the brothers, Moksha, Samadhi and Turiya swore by the very curse that their mother had laid on them to live on and vent their eternal hatred on all the land and its inhabitants. Then they were taken to the great execution grounds of the old kingdom at the edge of the Great Forest and were there hung and disembowelled. However, as they drew their last breaths a great storm arose from the South and its power, wind and rain blotted out the heavens. The bodies hung upon their gibbets were struck with bolts of powerful lightning, incinerating the last vestiges of life from the broken corpses. But through the power of the storm and the strength of the curse, the three spirits were freed from their corporal bodies and went forth into the Land, learning to possess weaker beings and through them bespoiling and desecrating wherever they went. For many centuries their evil spirits took revenge on any living creature, but most of all they hated the trees for it was there in the arms of the Great Forest their mortal lives had been rent and the Forest had mocked them. Then a new evil came to the land in the form of the Despiser and their lust for power and destruction were drawn to him until at last they fell under his sway and he subdued them with promises of even greater evil. Foul showed them the extents of his power and gave them glimpses of great banes that might become theirs to use if they subjugated themselves to his will. Thus the Ravers power grew and they became Fouls most vicious servants.

[hue of fuzzpaws]

Personally I tend to think that the Ravers are somehow linked with the Sarangrave Flat;

[Linden] . . . did not raise her eyes, would not look at him. 'It's alive.' Her voice was a whisper of anguish. 'The whole thing's alive.' . . . 'It's hungry. . . It's like a Raver.'

A Raver? [Thomas] . . . wanted to shout, 'What kind of a person are you? Why did Foul choose you? But he crushed himself to quietness. 'Is it a Raver?'

She shook her head. She went on shaking her head, as if she could not reach the end of all the things she wanted to deny. 'Ravers are more -' She had to search herself for an adequate description -'more specific. Self-conscious. But it's still possession . . .

TSCOTC, pg. 370

The above quote is Linden's first reaction at seeing the Sarangrave.

[Darkdenubis]

Old thread, but my first time reading thru it raised a couple of thoughts.

Foul came to The Land for the same reason man did, it is the heart of the Earth in many ways. I base this on the number of extremely powerful areas and items within it..The Illearth Stone, the Blood of Command, etc,..with the exception of the SoL, most of the natural powers of the world seem based in The Land.

I also believe the Ravers are spawned by the Sarangrave, felt that way since The Illearth War, when Kinslaughter spoke of the Lurker like a close personal friend

I don't agree that the Ravers had more freedom then the Nazgul, the Ravers were never permitted to take the ring, but if Frodo had died on Weathertop, the Witchking would most certainly have taken the Ring. What he would have done with it is another matter

The Witchking also created Angmar and sacked the northern kingdom, then took Minith Ithil from Gondor, all while Sauron was still recovering from his defeat at the end of the Second Age. Seems to me that he had a free hand to do what he wished, as long as it served the ultimate goal of the conquest of Middle Earth. Lord Foul would NEVER have allowed such freedom of action to his Ravers...simply put, he couldn't trust them to remain loyal heh.

[SGuilfoyle1966]

After reading one page of this thread, want to get it back to Ravers.
It is established by the end of Illearth War that the Ravers had SOME independence, but Foul used the Illearth Stone and the flakes not only to give them power, but also to bind them to him.
And clearer in Power that Preserves that he is using Elena and the Staff of Law to keep a rein on them.
And I believe there is another instance in the end of TPTP that Foul's active control over them is asserted through the Stone. Something about he dare not let them touch it ...
They are independent by nature, but he keeps them under tight control.

[SGuilfoyle1966]

but I cannot think of a single person in the Land who TC has come across who has not been kind, honest, brave, loyal, etc., etc. Maybe they went crazy, but fundamentally every one of them has been a good person. Even Atiaran, who had more reason to hate TC than anybody, was loyal enough to the Land to lead TC across Andelain.

The hint comes in the books that Covenant writes after the first Trilogy. Something about only guilty, sinning people can be effective for good. Think about that.

Isn't Foul Covenant in some sense? His opposite. Bizarro-TC?

Only really good people can be effective -- for evil. Sure Kaseryn of the Gyre was evil to the bone. What did he do? Create Sandgorgons Doom which in gave him BrairtherRealm, but did some good saving the Braitheir. He did good, in the end.

No, the kind of evil Foul wants has to be accomplished where people are so intrinsically good they are paragons, almost above all reproach.

And his name is Kevin, Kevin, good old really powerful Kevin ...

See?

Foul really only corrupted one person. But WOW. Look what that accomplished.