Size of the Illearth Stone?

[hyarmion]

Something in the First Chronicles has always bugged me, how big was the Illearth Stone? There is a degree of inconsistency in the descriptions.

We first see the Stone when Drool Rockworm drags himself to the surface when the Quest of the Staff of Law are surrounded right at the end of LFB. Drool is described as clutching in his fist "a green stone that radiated intense wrong ..." This stone is not actually named as the Illearth Stone, but pretty obviously it is. Drool's hands were very large, as large as shovels according to TC, but realistically the largest thing he could have clenched in his fist would have been, what? 12 inches in diameter, not much more surely.

When I talk about diameter, I am assuming the Stone was approximately spherical. In my imagination I think of it as being spherical but multi-faceted. Like a giant sized cut gemstone.

Yet when Saltheart Foamfollower first saw then Stone when he entered the Thonehall at Ridjeck Thome his thoughts were: "The Stone was not as large [he] had expected it to be; it did not appear to be so big or heavy that he could not have lifted it in his arms." If SHFF thought he would need two arms to lift it (how long were his arms?) we are surely talking about something, what?, three, four or even five feet in diameter! Far too big for Drool to have clenched in his fist!

Any thoughts on this?

[Orlion]

The Illearth Stone is able to be broken up as well... it had at least three pieces that a Giant could hold in his fist... who knows if Drool had broken off a piece as well?

I'd like to get more into it... but I don't have a copy of LFB handy

[Darkdenubis]

The Illearth Stone is able to be broken up as well... it had at least three pieces that a Giant could hold in his fist... who knows if Drool had broken off a piece as well?

I'd like to get more into it... but I don't have a copy of LFB handy

Drool could not having broken it, his mastery wasn't nearly as great as Foul's.

Hyrim says, "Never in our darkest nightmares did we imagine that Foul would break pieces of the stone off for his Ravers, his mastery of the stone must be very great."

Besides, even if Drool COULD have chipped pieces off, he was too greedy for power to consider sharing them with any other being.

But to answer the original post, I too found it odd that Drool carried the stone around with him in LFB, yet Foul had it mounted in his thrown room. Perhaps the answer lies in the GRIP of Drool, his hands are so strong they can handle and lift objects far larger then his actual hand size, sort of how The Governator use to one-hand grip medicine balls when he was Mr. Universe.

Or perhaps Drool was the creater of Gorilla Glue /shrug

[Blackhawk]

the stone could have been as large as a basketball possibly, if a flake would fit in a giants hand and it also mentions Drool holding the stone on the mountainside exit before the Firelions rolled over him... I figure for drool to be holding it in his weakened state it had to be max the size of a basketball... or a volleyball.. hehe, I always pictured it to be a 3 foot globe before i re read the LFB chapter with drool holding it in his hands.

[peter]

Perhaps it is just a simple breakdown of continuity.

[wayfriend]

On the one hand:

But in his fist he clutched a green stone which radiated intense wrong through the blackness of the clouds.

On the other hand:

the Stone was not as large as Foamfollower had expected it to be; it did not appear so big or heavy that he could not have lifted it in his arms.

But then later:

Before the Despiser could reach him, he raised his hands and fell fists-first at the Illearth Stone....

In the heart of the whirling gale, the pillar of force, he knelt beside the Stone and put his arms around it like a man embracing immolation. ... Like a lifeless and indomitable heart of fury, the Illearth Stone pulsed in Covenant's arms, laboring in mindless, automatic reflex to destroy him rather than be destroyed. And he hugged it to his breast like a chosen fate.

This all looks a bit inconsistent to me. If a Cavewight - admittedly very strong, could hold up the Stone in his hand, why would Foamfollower describe it as he did, making it seem much larger?

Also it was large enough for Covenant to embrace, but small enough that he had to kneel down to embrace it. And yet, it was large enough that Covenant could reach it by extending his hands and falling forward.

I agree, Drool did not carry a fragment. And also, I assume that the Illearth Stone did not grow. But, even with his large Cavewight hands, "in his fist" - with no other context - suggests it was the size of a grapefruit.

I guess I am in the camp that the Illearth Stone is large, say around 2 to 2.5 feet in diameter, the size of a beachball (and so larger than a basketball). I presume either Donaldson was a bit inconsistent in LFB, or Drools strength was greater than we give him credit for, or -- and this is how I actually envision it - Drool was not holding the Stone aloft like a trophy, but holding it while it rested on the ground. Just as Foul later used it.

[soft one]

I agree with wayfriend on the size, 2' - 2.5' at the widest, but I've always thought it to be the shape of something like a potato... more like a real rock's shape.

[SGuilfoyle1966]

Aren't we forgetting that Cavewights dn't have human size hands?
Aren't they "shovel-like?"

[Thorhammerhand]

I agree with wayfriend, I see the stone being about the size of a beach ball...
probably rough rather that cut

[Krazy Kat]

When I talk about diameter, I am assuming the Stone was approximately spherical. In my imagination I think of it as being spherical but multi-faceted. Like a giant sized cut gemstone.

Do you mean like a crystal ball?

I never gave much thought as to how Lord Foul always knows where Covenant is in the Land!

Another thought struck me. Is the Illearth Stone a fragment of the One Rock?
It's possible because Foul had possession of the Staff of Law and he controlled Drool like a puppet on a string.

[Thorhammerhand]

LF never directly controlled the SOL. The whole purpose of the quest in LFB, from LF's POV, was to get the SOL out of Drools hands and into the hands of the new lords, who he KNEW were incapable of using it effectively against him. This is discussed in the council in LFB.

However, he (LF), did control DRW, but instead of doing so with law he did so by teaching Drool slowly and 'charging' high prices for his aid.

[Krazy Kat]

[quote="Thorhammerhand"]LF never directly controlled the SOL. The whole purpose of the quest in LFB, from LF's POV, was to get the SOL out of Drools hands and into the hands of the new lords, who he KNEW were incapable of using it effectively against him. This is discussed in the council in LFB.[quote]

Drool Rockworm used the Staff of Law and Lord Foul controlled him with the power of the Illearth Stone. But what interests me is how a piece of the One Rock could be so corrupted and made to do so much wrong. This is a major clue into the power that preserves and the might of the white wild magic.

[wayfriend]

Aren't we forgetting that Cavewights dn't have human size hands?
Aren't they "shovel-like?"

I'm not forgetting that. Nor that they are immensely strong, built biologically to contend with stone.

But unless his hand is about 4 feet across, I cannot see Drool holding "in his fist" something the size of a beachball. And his holding a stone that large up with one hand defies the laws of physics, as it would weigh more than he. It's clear to me that that passage paints a smaller picture of the Stone than I see in my minds eye, despite allowances for the nature of Cavewights.

(And BTW, while I imagine it the size of a beachball, I don't imagine it as spherical. It's essentially an uncut boulder, mishapen and perhaps a bit lumpy. And I never imagined it as crystaline, either.)

[High Lord Tolkien]

I always imagined it like a misshapen multifaceted emerald gemstone.

Why all the assumption that the Stone was heavy?
Where does it give any description of it's actual weight?
What if it's mass was like mica or something light?

If it was, for some unmentioned reason heavy, Drool had large hands and immense strength that was probably augmented by the power of the Stone. He could probably lift it with ease because he was utilizing it's power. FF on the other hand was just looking at it based on it's visual aspects.
No one other then Drool was ever described as holding it.


(Basketball players typically can hold a basketball in one hand, btw)

[peter]

. The whole purpose of the quest in LFB, from LF's POV, was to get the SOL out of Drools hands and into the hands of the new lords, who he KNEW were incapable of using it effectively against him.

Does this imply that the Despiser was afraid that Drool + SOL + IES was a combination beyond even his great powers?

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I don't think the Illearth Stone is in any way connected to the One Stone - mostly because there is no such Stone mentioned in any of the published works to date. Secondly, the Illearth Stone was described as one of the many banes the Despiser sneaked into the forming Earth while the Creator wasn't paying attention. To me, this indicates that it was a creation of Despite -- and the One Stone, if it exists, should be an intentional design of the Creator, like the One Tree.

Also, my opinion is that Drool was *not* controlled by Foul per se. Rather, he was heavily manipulated - he was told misleading truths (though I'll wager he was not lied to). That is what Foul does. Drool could have overpowered Foul on a couple of occasions, but he never had reason to, or was not smart enough to know he was being used... or he plain didn't care. He was a patsy, at best. Foul chose well -- especially given that one of his primary gambits was to put the SoL in the hands of the Lords, to empower greater and more poignantly suicidal acts, all while he claimed the Illearth Stone and its unique ability to pervert nature. Remember, the SoL was needed to summon TC, until the Law was weakened by Elena's big Earthpower mistake.

Regarding size... I always assumed that Drool was carrying only a piece of the IS, and not the entire bane. I imagine the full IS to be the size of a large globe, but shaped like a chunky mini-boulder -- a piece of melting kryptonite. Drool may have been able to pick up the entire IS.

I don't think we need to talk about Drool's strength wrt his ability to pick of the IS. Yes, Drool was becoming more and more physically harmed through continued misuses of the SoL -- but I gather that natural cavewight strength is much closer to Giant than human levels. So even a reduced strenth Cavewight should be able to carry quite a bit without straining too much.

dw

[Krazy Kat]

The One Rock is mentioned in the IEW. When the company prepare to leave Revelstone, Tohrm presents Covenant with a gift of orcrest :

'It is orcrest, a rare piece of the One Rock which is the heart of the Earth. The Earthpower is abundant in it,...'

Tohrm gives this gift to Covenant, saying:

'I offer it out of respect for my old friend Birinair, whom you released from the fire which consumed him. I offer it in gratitude of a brave deed.'

This is odd, because it was Prothal who released Birinair from the fire by using his staff, not Covenant! So what's happening here?

My take on it is this: Tohrm is a believer - a Land born believer! Elena, Troy, and yes, even Mhoram, are Land born unbelievers - the direct opposite relative to Covenant. In other words, they don't believe in Thomas Covenant.
In the eye of the paradox, this makes perfect sense to me.

[SGuilfoyle1966]

Didn't Mhoram throw his staff into the fire, and Covenant touched the staff, which shattered the wall of flame?

[Thorhammerhand]

Wasn't that Prothal? Although only wild magic destroyed the firewall, so in effect TC did free the corpse of Birinair

[wayfriend]

Prothrall threw his staff into the flame wall, and freed Birinair. But he was thrust on the other side, inaccessible. Then Covenant grasped Prothall's staff, and in doing so destroyed the flame wall.