Well, it's finally out: Mass Effect 2: Fight for the Lost
While I haven't played ME or DA:O, KOTOR was freaking amazing and I'm thinking about getting this one.
Mass Effect 2
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jacob Raver, sinTempter
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Mass Effect 2
Sunshine Music
Deep Music
"I'm gonna eat your brains and gain your knowledge." - Tony Block, Planet Terror
Deep Music
"I'm gonna eat your brains and gain your knowledge." - Tony Block, Planet Terror
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Loredoctor
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Holsety
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Finished it yesterday evening. I didn't like the ending boss fight, but overall I thought this one was better than the predecessor. Had to do the last mission twice to ensure no one died.
My favorite part is when Miranda smashes the elevator during her loyalty quest. Take that citadel elevator music!
I'd give it 9 or 10 out of 10.
My favorite part is when Miranda smashes the elevator during her loyalty quest. Take that citadel elevator music!
I'd give it 9 or 10 out of 10.
I bought both ME1 and ME2 and played them one after the other... it was a great experience! The transition between the two is very well-handled (the beginning of ME2 is pretty striking) and the impact many of your decisions in ME1 are shown to have in ME2 also contributes a lot towards making you feel that your decisions actually mattered, and that the universe around you is being shaped in part by what you chose to do. Overall, it makes you feel much more the protagonist of the story than many other games do. I enjoyed the fact that sometimes even the smallest decisions had an impact in ME2 - i.e. your "most ardent fan" in ME1 who shows up pretending to be just like you in ME2 if you didn't treat him roughly; the nosy journalist who tried to make you look bad on TV when she interviewed you in ME1 who shows up again in ME2; and so on.
I also agree that ME2 is even better than ME1, but that said, even ME1 was a gem of a game, and the story gets better with the second installment. ME2 is definitely darker and more mature than ME1, but this fits the second act of a trilogy and it adds to the feeling that what you did in ME1 was only a temporary setback, not the whole story.
Personally I liked the final battle much more than the one in ME1. First of all, the battle in M2 has a sense of urgency that ME1 somehow lacks - this may be simply due to the fact that your choices regarding which companions do what actually affect the ending, and also the fact that it really feels like the companions you didn't choose for your squad aren't sitting around, but are doing what they can to buy you a chance. I can understand how the final boss may feel less satisfying to defeat than Saren, but on the other hand I found that it really gave the fight an epic quality that the final battle in ME1 lacked... it shows how things are growing in scope, and I have to say that the setting and the appearance of the final boss are far more striking than in ME1, contributing - IMO - to a more memorable fight. It's creepy, and it works in the context of the game - especially once you find out what's really going on.
I also agree that ME2 is even better than ME1, but that said, even ME1 was a gem of a game, and the story gets better with the second installment. ME2 is definitely darker and more mature than ME1, but this fits the second act of a trilogy and it adds to the feeling that what you did in ME1 was only a temporary setback, not the whole story.
Personally I liked the final battle much more than the one in ME1. First of all, the battle in M2 has a sense of urgency that ME1 somehow lacks - this may be simply due to the fact that your choices regarding which companions do what actually affect the ending, and also the fact that it really feels like the companions you didn't choose for your squad aren't sitting around, but are doing what they can to buy you a chance. I can understand how the final boss may feel less satisfying to defeat than Saren, but on the other hand I found that it really gave the fight an epic quality that the final battle in ME1 lacked... it shows how things are growing in scope, and I have to say that the setting and the appearance of the final boss are far more striking than in ME1, contributing - IMO - to a more memorable fight. It's creepy, and it works in the context of the game - especially once you find out what's really going on.
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Holsety
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Even though I actually agree with you, I think I can tell you why it was less satisfying to some.I also agree that ME2 is even better than ME1, but that said, even ME1 was a gem of a game, and the story gets better with the second installment. ME2 is definitely darker and more mature than ME1, but this fits the second act of a trilogy and it adds to the feeling that what you did in ME1 was only a temporary setback, not the whole story.
Personally I liked the final battle much more than the one in ME1. First of all, the battle in M2 has a sense of urgency that ME1 somehow lacks - this may be simply due to the fact that your choices regarding which companions do what actually affect the ending, and also the fact that it really feels like the companions you didn't choose for your squad aren't sitting around, but are doing what they can to buy you a chance. I can understand how the final boss may feel less satisfying to defeat than Saren, but on the other hand I found that it really gave the fight an epic quality that the final battle in ME1 lacked... it shows how things are growing in scope, and I have to say that the setting and the appearance of the final boss are far more striking than in ME1, contributing - IMO - to a more memorable fight. It's creepy, and it works in the context of the game - especially once you find out what's really going on.
Spoiler
Essentially, Saren wasn't just a villain, he was a well developed antagonist who we had actual feelings about. There are aspects about him that are quite compelling.
In contrast, the collectors are mostly mindless, and it turns out at the end that they were entirely mindless, as "Harbinger" wasn't some kind of special collector, but a reaper himself. The collectors themselves have no agency or independence.
The main thing I want to know now is why the sequence of ME1 and ME2 seem somewhat discontinuous. In ME1, Sovereign plans a general invasion of the galaxy starting with a disabling and then takeover of the Citadel - the plan is that by gaining control, they'll have so much info about all the different council races (census docs etc) plus the ability to shut down the mass relays, meaning they'll be able to hunt every single sentient organic down. Meanwhile in ME2, Harbinger has a relatively laid back plan, the culmination of which - hinted to be the invasion of earth (discussed when talking about vast space in the collector ship holds for humans) - never even occurs.
Although this is probably very important to the reaper "reproduction" or whatever, it's not really clear that stopping this plan is going to do much for the galaxy as a whole, as there are apparently a pretty significant number of reapers already. And since the normandy - admittedly a souped up version - was enough to disable the collector ship on her own, I don't think that taking the collectors out was anywhere near the magnitude of taking out sovereign, plus the geth fleet, in ME1.
I think the setting of the final events of ME1 was also quite effective for this. Collector base VS grav-booting on the citadel tower...the latter is a whole lot cooler in my mind...
All this being said, the story is what it is. I think that ME1 told a more broad tale than ME2 did, and to some extent that makes it more fun, but I think ME2 did better at what it did than ME1 did at what it did (if that makes any sense at all). What ME2 did is center things more on Shepherd. Yes, making sure the citadel's arms opened was important, but it seems to me like the final battle against sovereign-saren was mostly about your survival. At that point, things were in the alliance's hands. In this case, shep personally takes part in the final destruction of the "big bad". I wonder if that will work out so well in ME3?? Wanna take a trip inside the core of a non-derelict and complete reaper? Doesn't sound like fun to me!
Also, the over-the-top idea that a star will change colors based on your decision relating to the collector base IMO reflects shep's statement (if you are hostile to cerberus) that "I'm calling the shots now" or something like that. This comment is shortly proceeded by TIM's claim that "cerberus is humanity" and Shep seems to be saying that now shep is going to try to do what is best for humanity by leading humanity in some way. This is particularly interesting because I believe that Harbinger's fixation on Shepherd was based on some kind of interest in making shep have some vital role in the construction of the human reaper. Since I doubt that shep is genetically superior somehow and will make that much of a difference in the general structure, I suspect that Shep was going to be used in some kind of central control unit or some BS like that, becoming part of or the entirety of the reaper's consciousness.
It's also possible that the star color has something to do with the mentions of decay in the star near that geth planet. I have absolutely NO idea what to do with that information, unless the reapers turn out to be like the inhibitors from revelation space, doing whatever it is they're doing in fear of some kind of galactic ecological threat that only a synthetic super-race can deal with. I trust bioware not to introduce "the big bad behind the big bad" though.
I'd also like to share some of my thoughts about the overall arc of the series:
-I suspect that the Shadow Broker is none other than the Consort. This idea has been rolling around in my head since #1. The fact that the SB has an asari agent hints at that. Additionally, the consort gives you (in ME1) an artifact that activates a relic showing a link between protheans and humans (it turns out they were monitoring pre-historic humans). Since protheans are now linked to the reapers, it's quite possible that the reapers orchestrated this somehow. The fact that the SB is a collector agent is hinted at by the fact that Saren and the SB were once allies, and that .
-For a further twist, not only is shai'ra the consort and the shadow broker, she is also liara's other mom. (ie benezia's partner)
-The Protheans - or rather their actions - were, and perhaps still are, the real key to the salvation of the galaxy. ME2 making the remaining protheans the agents of the collectors is a diversion if you will from the fact that they saved the galaxy in ME1. There is no indication that Sovereign felt there was anything new or different about the council races than any of the other sentient species the reapers have enslaved/slaughtered through the years. Yet a reaper was destroyed and the council was saved. This was for two reasons.
1: The reaper superweapon, giving them instant control of the council and the ability to shut down travel through relays, was deactivated by the protheans. Moreover, the reapers resorted to using the conduit (only relay not built by reapers, and thus a singular accomplishment). For the first time, instead of the reapers leaving behind relics in order to control the actions of other races, they were forced to be "reactants" and delve through the relics of the protheans for a solution to their problem. A tidy inversion of the usual order.
2: ME wants to tell us that humanity is something special and that we (specifically shep) have something unique to offer to the galaxy. One possibility is that this is rooted in the "genetic diversity" which most other races marvel at found in humanity. Now, in the context of the knowledge that the protheans were monitoring our species, and may have experiemented on it, what does this mean? If humanity somehow turns out to be instrumental for some intrinsic reason in defeating the reapers, will the protheans pre-extinction decisions be the key to the victory yet again???
In contrast, the collectors are mostly mindless, and it turns out at the end that they were entirely mindless, as "Harbinger" wasn't some kind of special collector, but a reaper himself. The collectors themselves have no agency or independence.
The main thing I want to know now is why the sequence of ME1 and ME2 seem somewhat discontinuous. In ME1, Sovereign plans a general invasion of the galaxy starting with a disabling and then takeover of the Citadel - the plan is that by gaining control, they'll have so much info about all the different council races (census docs etc) plus the ability to shut down the mass relays, meaning they'll be able to hunt every single sentient organic down. Meanwhile in ME2, Harbinger has a relatively laid back plan, the culmination of which - hinted to be the invasion of earth (discussed when talking about vast space in the collector ship holds for humans) - never even occurs.
Although this is probably very important to the reaper "reproduction" or whatever, it's not really clear that stopping this plan is going to do much for the galaxy as a whole, as there are apparently a pretty significant number of reapers already. And since the normandy - admittedly a souped up version - was enough to disable the collector ship on her own, I don't think that taking the collectors out was anywhere near the magnitude of taking out sovereign, plus the geth fleet, in ME1.
I think the setting of the final events of ME1 was also quite effective for this. Collector base VS grav-booting on the citadel tower...the latter is a whole lot cooler in my mind...
All this being said, the story is what it is. I think that ME1 told a more broad tale than ME2 did, and to some extent that makes it more fun, but I think ME2 did better at what it did than ME1 did at what it did (if that makes any sense at all). What ME2 did is center things more on Shepherd. Yes, making sure the citadel's arms opened was important, but it seems to me like the final battle against sovereign-saren was mostly about your survival. At that point, things were in the alliance's hands. In this case, shep personally takes part in the final destruction of the "big bad". I wonder if that will work out so well in ME3?? Wanna take a trip inside the core of a non-derelict and complete reaper? Doesn't sound like fun to me!
Also, the over-the-top idea that a star will change colors based on your decision relating to the collector base IMO reflects shep's statement (if you are hostile to cerberus) that "I'm calling the shots now" or something like that. This comment is shortly proceeded by TIM's claim that "cerberus is humanity" and Shep seems to be saying that now shep is going to try to do what is best for humanity by leading humanity in some way. This is particularly interesting because I believe that Harbinger's fixation on Shepherd was based on some kind of interest in making shep have some vital role in the construction of the human reaper. Since I doubt that shep is genetically superior somehow and will make that much of a difference in the general structure, I suspect that Shep was going to be used in some kind of central control unit or some BS like that, becoming part of or the entirety of the reaper's consciousness.
It's also possible that the star color has something to do with the mentions of decay in the star near that geth planet. I have absolutely NO idea what to do with that information, unless the reapers turn out to be like the inhibitors from revelation space, doing whatever it is they're doing in fear of some kind of galactic ecological threat that only a synthetic super-race can deal with. I trust bioware not to introduce "the big bad behind the big bad" though.
I'd also like to share some of my thoughts about the overall arc of the series:
-I suspect that the Shadow Broker is none other than the Consort. This idea has been rolling around in my head since #1. The fact that the SB has an asari agent hints at that. Additionally, the consort gives you (in ME1) an artifact that activates a relic showing a link between protheans and humans (it turns out they were monitoring pre-historic humans). Since protheans are now linked to the reapers, it's quite possible that the reapers orchestrated this somehow. The fact that the SB is a collector agent is hinted at by the fact that Saren and the SB were once allies, and that .
-For a further twist, not only is shai'ra the consort and the shadow broker, she is also liara's other mom. (ie benezia's partner)
-The Protheans - or rather their actions - were, and perhaps still are, the real key to the salvation of the galaxy. ME2 making the remaining protheans the agents of the collectors is a diversion if you will from the fact that they saved the galaxy in ME1. There is no indication that Sovereign felt there was anything new or different about the council races than any of the other sentient species the reapers have enslaved/slaughtered through the years. Yet a reaper was destroyed and the council was saved. This was for two reasons.
1: The reaper superweapon, giving them instant control of the council and the ability to shut down travel through relays, was deactivated by the protheans. Moreover, the reapers resorted to using the conduit (only relay not built by reapers, and thus a singular accomplishment). For the first time, instead of the reapers leaving behind relics in order to control the actions of other races, they were forced to be "reactants" and delve through the relics of the protheans for a solution to their problem. A tidy inversion of the usual order.
2: ME wants to tell us that humanity is something special and that we (specifically shep) have something unique to offer to the galaxy. One possibility is that this is rooted in the "genetic diversity" which most other races marvel at found in humanity. Now, in the context of the knowledge that the protheans were monitoring our species, and may have experiemented on it, what does this mean? If humanity somehow turns out to be instrumental for some intrinsic reason in defeating the reapers, will the protheans pre-extinction decisions be the key to the victory yet again???
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Loredoctor
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Holsety
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I actually think that ME's most important influence is the star control series. ME did to Star Control II's races IMO what Shakespeare did to Ovid's Pyramus and Thisbe in R+J. Took something humorous and turned it serious (again).Loremaster wrote:+100 points for mentioning the Inhibitors. Reynolds' Revelation Space series is pure gold.
I think if you've played SCII, pair up the Thraddash with the Krogan for a particularly good example. Both have violent, warlike cultures. Compare the salarians uplifting the krogans, which results in the krogan going to war w/ the rest of the galaxy and getting genophaged, to the thraddash who have civil wars when the ur quan, and then the humans in the vindicator, defeat them. I'm pretty sure the Lord High Researcher in Wrex's base actually talks about how constant upheaval is what makes the krogan strong.
I like revelation space, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't directly influencing ME2.
Spoiler
The only particular thing that comes to mind is that the bird-people in Rev Space 1 are kind of like the Collectors in ME2, but in Rev Space 1 the bird people are trying to use humans as a "decoy" of sorts to draw inhibitor attention, while the collectors are working for the reapers.
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The Dreaming
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Ok, I am officially crowning Bioware king of Role-Playing developers. Releasing Dragon Age and ME2 within 6 months of each other... mind blowing. This game is unbelievable. The narrative depth of this game is mind blowing. You are so deeply immersed into this universe, every battle really FEELS like you are doing something, you feel like you are actually somewhere. It feels DAMN good to save humanity. Even though I've done it 1000 times in rpg after rpg, ME2 makes it feel fresh, like it's the first time again. It FEELS like the first time I played ff7 all over again, or Baldur's Gate II, or Chrono Trigger, or Morrowind. Even Dragon Age didn't make me feel like a kid again. This game is something new, something I haven't played before, something I've played a million times. The best art combines everything you already know, scrambles it, and makes it feel new again. Star Wars did it, Lord of the Rings did it, Pulp Fiction did it, Battlestar Galactica did it, and now ME2 has done it.
10 out of 10
Both thumbs up
A+
Five Stars.
Smily Face Sticker
This game is awesome, and everyone who has ever touched an RPG OR an Action Game OR remotely likes Space Opera needs to play it.
10 out of 10
Both thumbs up
A+
Five Stars.
Smily Face Sticker
This game is awesome, and everyone who has ever touched an RPG OR an Action Game OR remotely likes Space Opera needs to play it.
