Jeremiah's structures

[DrPaul]

I have just finished re-reading the first part of TROTE.

On the day Roger abducts Jeremiah and Joan, we learn that Jeremiah has constructed Lego models of Revelstone and Mount Thunder in the lounge room, a Tinker Toy model of an elaborate castle in the hallway, and has previously completed, in his bedroom, a very elaborate structure culminating in an arch made from model racing car tracks and other bits from model car kits.

When Linden arrives home to find that Roger has kidnapped Jeremiah and Sandy Eastwood and has ransacked the house in search of Linden's ring, she discovers that the castle in the hallway has been ruined but the arched structure in his bedroom is intact, even though Roger would have passed through both rooms dragging Jeremiah and perhaps other hostages along with him.

We all know the significance of Jeremiah's models of Revelstone and Mount Thunder. Can we not therefore surmise that the castle in the hallway and the arched structure in the bedroom also have a significance in the Land and/or the Creator's and Foul's universe which will be revealed in AATE and/or The Last Dark, and if so, what is the significance of the fact that Roger has destroyed one of these structures but not the other?

[aliantha]

I never connected the racecar track with an *arch* before... Good one, DrPaul!

The obvious connection there would be that the racecar track is meant to be the Arch of Time. So maybe Jeremiah grabs that little car because he will need a way to traverse it?

As for the castle at the doorway...that could be anything. It could be the cliff face that Joan is destroying when she creates ceasures. Or maybe it's a structure Covenant would recognize but Linden doesn't.

Heh. Y'know, we've been speculating that The Last Dark is SRD's way of destroying the Land in order to build something new. It occurs to me that that's exactly what kids do with Tinkertoys and Legos -- they build a world with them, and then tear down that world and build something else.

[Relayer]

IIRC, the castle was described as a faery-like and magical structure. Maybe it represents something like the home of the Elohim? Or maybe something the Viles created in the Lost Deep?

[DrPaul]

IIRC, the castle was described as a faery-like and magical structure. Maybe it represents something like the home of the Elohim? Or maybe something the Viles created in the Lost Deep?

My thoughts were also along the lines of something the Viles had created (and which might be found to still exist).

[Shuram Gudatetris]

On the day Roger abducts Jeremiah and Joan, we learn that Jeremiah has constructed Lego models of Revelstone and Mount Thunder in the lounge room, a Tinker Toy model of an elaborate castle in the hallway, and has previously completed, in his bedroom, a very elaborate structure culminating in an arch made from model racing car tracks and other bits from model car kits.

I never connected the racecar track with an *arch* before... Good one, DrPaul!

The obvious connection there would be that the racecar track is meant to be the Arch of Time. So maybe Jeremiah grabs that little car because he will need a way to traverse it?

Ooooh....that's a very interesting thought.....

[SGuilfoyle1966]

Nice catch.

[Mighara Sovmadhi]

Why can't I thank this post?

[Savor Dam]

Why can't I thank this post?

AFAICT, the GoodPost button is not enabled for any thread in this forum.

[Thorhammerhand]

My initial thought for that castle in the hall is a vile construct, maybe refering to what LA would have seen under Garoting deep

[Ur Dead]

Maybe it was the Creator that appeared and influence Jeremiah. And by building those structure was his way to say that he (Jeremiah) met the old man in orche robes..

The Creator only appeared to TC once. Tells TC it was a big risk when he did it at the end of TPTP.

Only to Linden once. She tells TC and TC is warned of a return.

Linden seeing the structures, reconized what they were and was warned that a translation would take place.

If they saw or met him again (Creator), they would have an advantage of
being able to persue the old guy and questioning him. Thus skewing any freedom of choice they would have to come to a conclusion. Plus it may
cause them to harm the Land more if they were contacted directly.

Foul wouldn't warned anybody, he would just summon the person and take the full advantage of the confusion.
This may indicated that Jeramiah can be saved and isn't under Foul's total dominance, if it was the Creator was the one who influenced the building of those structures.


SRD can be very subtle in his writing. He places the tie-in very disceetly but gives you a misdirection. It's only at the end of the Chronicles do you
see the path SRD has really taken.

[Zarathustra]

... and has previously completed, in his bedroom, a very elaborate structure culminating in an arch made from model racing car tracks and other bits from model car kits.

When Linden arrives home to find that Roger has kidnapped Jeremiah and Sandy Eastwood and has ransacked the house in search of Linden's ring, she discovers that the castle in the hallway has been ruined but the arched structure in his bedroom is intact, even though Roger would have passed through both rooms dragging Jeremiah and perhaps other hostages along with him.

We all know the significance of Jeremiah's models of Revelstone and Mount Thunder. Can we not therefore surmise that the castle in the hallway and the arched structure in the bedroom also have a significance in the Land and/or the Creator's and Foul's universe which will be revealed in AATE and/or The Last Dark, and if so, what is the significance of the fact that Roger has destroyed one of these structures but not the other?

Nice catch indeed! The text on page 45 states:

Now towers festooned with curlicues of track reached up on either side of his bedroom door to meet in an arch at the height of the lintel. Raceways in airy spans linked those structures to the ones which he had already finished. Yet the design would have been useless to its cars. The track through all of its loops and turns and dives formed an elaborate Mobius strip, reversing itself as it traveled so that in time a finger drawn along its route would touch every inch of its surface on both sides.

She had never asked him to take it down. Surely it was special to him? Why else had he only worked on it late at night, when he was alone? In some sense, it was more uniquely his than anything else he had built.

This is absolutely significant. Is the Mobius strip SRD's model or symbol for how the arch of time contains all moments in a continuous looping whole? Can we infer anything about the end of this story from the fact that he thinks of time (in the Land) in this way? What is the significance that it reverses itself as it travels? Let the speculation begin!

SRD also goes out of his way to point out--3 times--that Jeremiah has no interest in the cars. This is significant, too, given that he finally becomes intensely interested in one car, so much that he actually takes one with him to the Land.

[DrPaul]

I've been re-reading the chapter "Love and Strangers" in FR, and Jeremiah tells Linden that the arch in his bedroom is a kind of tunnel through which he can travel between realities. This might settle the matter, except that we subsequently learn that Jeremiah is possessed by a croyel and is colluding in Roger Covenant's deception of Linden.

[aliantha]

Yeah, I'm not convinced we can believe much of anything Roger and Jeremiah told Linden....

[Vraith]

Yeah, I'm not convinced we can believe much of anything Roger and Jeremiah told Linden....

I'm convinced that there were half-truth's in there. Linden is given partial/twisted explanations so she can be convinced that going along will both work and accomplish something.
I believe that Jeremiah could, and did, travel the world, and [possibly] wasn't always/yet bound to the croyel.
I speculate there's a complication in the croy-emiah that will eventually come to light: in most of the possession/mind-melding things we've seen, the "possessee" has some ability to resist, fight back, turn the tables.
I'm not convinced [yet] that Jeremiah "chose" to bond with the croyel...and if he did, it was probably through lies/trickery/manipulation/half-truths.
One reason being that for people who have suffered abuses like Jeremiah did, almost without exception, the very last thing they want/permit/are capable of is contact/close bonding with others.

[dlbpharmd]

Going from memory here.....when Linden commanded "Show me the truth!" Jeremiah was seen with the croyel clinging on his back. Jeremiah himself looked as Linden knew him in the "real world."

Now, it's possible that Jeremiah did indeed "see the world" but I have a hard time believing that. Based on what we learned of the croyel in TOT and WGW, they don't enslave as much as they guide and empower (I'm thinking specifically of the Kemper and the arghule.)

[Relayer]

Yeah, I'm not convinced we can believe much of anything Roger and Jeremiah told Linden....

I'm convinced that there were half-truth's in there. Linden is given partial/twisted explanations so she can be convinced that going along will both work and accomplish something.

I'm inclined to agree. I believe most of the facts that they've told her, just not their interpretation. We've already seen a number of instances where one of Roger or Jeremiah's stories are corroborated by others -- Harrow, Infelice, etc. Not that any of them are really trustworthy, but in these cases I think their info is accurate. Plus, the first chapter of AATE speaks to some of the same things.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

I never connected the racecar track with an *arch* before... Good one, DrPaul!

The obvious connection there would be that the racecar track is meant to be the Arch of Time. So maybe Jeremiah grabs that little car because he will need a way to traverse it?

There is an arch at the end of this trailer movie. www.stephenrdonaldson.com/flash_window3.htm