TC'c insight

[Thorhammerhand]

Just re-reading WL, and it struck me that as TC and Melma approach Revelstone, he shows an unusual percipience as to the fact that there is a Raver in charge of the clave.

Tell him that I understand the necessity of freedom as well as he does.

If there was just a mortal in command of the clave there is a chance that this comment would have been missed.

Where did that come from?

[wayfriend]

I think this is TC saying, you know you can't take the ring from me by force, and I know too; I know this is going to be about convincing me to give up the ring freely, which means it's going to involve a lot of innocent victims; And now you know I know, and it won't work.

[Thorhammerhand]

Agreed, but for the riders the command was to kill TC, and probably bring the ring back to Revelstone.

Thus, challenging the clave on the necessity of freedom further challenges the rede as the riders understand it.

[wayfriend]

Agreed, but for the riders the command was to kill TC, and probably bring the ring back to Revelstone.

Certainly. Do you think that the raver who gave those orders thought that they might succeed? Or do you think that they intended, in trying, to give Covenant more reason to despair, seeing the good people of the Land duped and thrown under the wheels of his wild magic.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I also think by that point, although he didn't know that a Raver was in charge of Revelstone there was no doubt in his mind that Foul was in charge and that his comment would be understood.

[wayfriend]

Oh, wait ... I thought we were talking about WGW.

never mind.

well ... better to say something ...

"I've already been taken prisoner twice. It's not going to happen to me again. I'm not going in there until I talk to the na-Mhoram." On the spur of a sudden intuition, he added, "Tell him I understand the necessity of freedom as well as he does. He can't get what he wants by coercion. He's just going to have to cooperate."

As HLT says, he doesn't know a Raver is here. He may suspect Foul is behind it. But he certainly considers the Clave to be an enemy at this point. And, I think, Memla has hinted that the Clave covets white gold, ostensibly to use against the Sunbane.

I think Covenant is trying to talk the Clave into speaking with him instead of trying to fight him. He figures if the Clave knows anything about lore, they know about the necessity of freedom. He's hoping to avoid a more combative confrontation.

[peter]

can anybody remember at what point TC becomes aware that Gibbon is possesed by a raver - my memory fails me on this point. Was it only when he became reunited with Linden and she was able to tell him what her Earthsight could see?

[DrPaul]

can anybody remember at what point TC becomes aware that Gibbon is possesed by a raver - my memory fails me on this point. Was it only when he became reunited with Linden and she was able to tell him what her Earthsight could see?

Covenant becomes aware that Gibbon, like his predecessors as na-Mhoram, is really samadhi Sheol during the Soothtell

[Orlion]

I remember when I first read that. I was thinking, "Come on,TC, he's a Raver! Can't you see-....oh, guess not..."
As far as the order to kill him, I think that was intended to force Covenant in a corner where he'd have to use the wild magic. With the poison impairing his control, that would either destroy the Arch sooner or make hin believe that he was just as dangerous as Foul, leading him to despair and to surrender his ring.