I was thinking that the lady with the beautiful smile that Thomas described, when talking about his time in the leper house has a connection with what happens in the second chronicles. The woman aways has a beautiful smile, even before she starts falling apart, and then, all of her gets destroyed, but the most beautiful part of her remains. (I have got a point to this) Elena or Mhoram preceed to say the Thomas is a prophet. And another lord goes on to ask if he speaks the future of the land. Mhoram and Elena say no, but passionately.
In the second chronicles the whole of the land is destroyed; but the most beautiful part of the land is still intact, Andelain. So Andelain could symbolize the womans smile, because they both remain intact, despite what is being done to the rest of the Land/face.
Am I the only one who has thought about this, or am I speaking a load of rubbish? What do yoou think.
Is Thomas a prophet and the second chronicles?
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Is Thomas a prophet and the second chronicles?
Last edited by Revan on Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Furls Fire
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I don't think it was his intention at the time he was writing The Illearth War. He has stated that he never intented to carry on the story past the First Chrons. It was only after LDR started coming up with horrible plot ideas for a second trilogy that SRD decided to do the Second Chrons. Plotting out both that and the Last.
That being said. I think it MAY have played a part when he began The Wounded Land. Andelian was always the "heart" the Land. The beautiful face as you so eloquently put it. So, he may have tied it in subtly.
Gosh, that part in TIW always brings a lump to my throat. Covenant's compassion for that woman really came through.
That being said. I think it MAY have played a part when he began The Wounded Land. Andelian was always the "heart" the Land. The beautiful face as you so eloquently put it. So, he may have tied it in subtly.
Gosh, that part in TIW always brings a lump to my throat. Covenant's compassion for that woman really came through.
And I believe in you
altho you never asked me too
I will remember you
and what life put you thru.
~fly fly little wing, fly where only angels sing~
~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~
...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.
altho you never asked me too
I will remember you
and what life put you thru.
~fly fly little wing, fly where only angels sing~
~this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you~
...for then I could fly away and be at rest. Sweet rest, Mom. We all love and miss you.
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[Syl]
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It's a very good idea, Tuvor. As for the intentional part or not, I offer a quote from Gene Wolfe.
I still don't think there are as many coincidences in the books as some might believe. I think Donaldson uses a lot of foreshadowing that's really hard to see unless you look for it (almost every comparison that can be made, I'm sure Steve saw at least once when going back over his manuscripts and decided to leave them in). Just my theory, though.We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges... It is a profound mistake to believe that we must know of such things to be influenced by them, and in fact to believe so is to believe in the most debased and superstitious kind of magic. The would-be sorcerer alone has faith in the efficacy of pure knowledge; rational people know that things act of themselves or not at all.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
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Fist and Faith
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First of all, I love this kind of connection! Good thinking! I don't care if it turns out to be intentional on SRD's part, or not.
And even if SRD didn't intend it, it may be a valid thought. I think the greats can have things going on unconsciously. Just part of what makes them genius. John Lennon was saying that people called Sgt. Pepper cyclic. He said something like, "We didn't write it to be a cycle. We just wrote a bunch of songs, and put them on the same album." But the genius is that their seemingly random grouping turned out to be "cyclic."
And even if SRD didn't intend it, it may be a valid thought. I think the greats can have things going on unconsciously. Just part of what makes them genius. John Lennon was saying that people called Sgt. Pepper cyclic. He said something like, "We didn't write it to be a cycle. We just wrote a bunch of songs, and put them on the same album." But the genius is that their seemingly random grouping turned out to be "cyclic."
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
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Seafoam Understone
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Well, IMO the fact that once Covenant finished his story it so impressed the others around him that one of them deemed him a prophet. Why would they make such a claim if he (and the others) didn't see that for themselves or began to see the relation to the woman at the lepersarium and those rocks (grr grr what was their name??) when TC finished?
I don't think TC meant his story to be prophecy or anything like that. You look out on a scenery and it reminds you of something so poignant that you're compelled to speak of it. As an author TC couldn't help to do so. Artists are that way...sometimes.
I don't think TC meant his story to be prophecy or anything like that. You look out on a scenery and it reminds you of something so poignant that you're compelled to speak of it. As an author TC couldn't help to do so. Artists are that way...sometimes.
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Ylva Kresh
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And again, I do not have my books at hand. But, did not TC hear the song "something there is in beauty... but the soul in which the flower grows, survives" before he did this "prophecy"? It could be possible that the song (and the Land - since all people around him talk about this constantly) gave rise to him mentioning this memory. Or? And the people of the Land are always very fast to give TC credit for everything (and they are right in the end, sometimes it is good to be that stubborn 
)
)SLATFATF...
I didn't read his telling the story with compassion toward the woman, more bitterness than anything else. As if she should have known better than to hold on to hope. And his reaction to the husband was simply a shared leper's rage, the same reaction he might have had to Joan (though of course, he would have taken her back, and so didn't have that reaction to her).
I dunno, when I read that story and he says she still had the smile, I read that as his saying that she shouldn't have held on to it.
And I linked that to his reaction to Hile Troy. He should have known that his sight and the Land were false, and eventually he loses everything but his smile. ie, he can't keep his promises, just barely saves the Warward, and ends up losing his life to become a forestal. And of course, by the 2nd Chrons, all he has left is his song.
Eh, it's not a perfect analogy either, but it came to mind anyway.
I dunno, when I read that story and he says she still had the smile, I read that as his saying that she shouldn't have held on to it.
And I linked that to his reaction to Hile Troy. He should have known that his sight and the Land were false, and eventually he loses everything but his smile. ie, he can't keep his promises, just barely saves the Warward, and ends up losing his life to become a forestal. And of course, by the 2nd Chrons, all he has left is his song.
Eh, it's not a perfect analogy either, but it came to mind anyway.
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Forestal
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Believer wrote:he can't keep his promises, just barely saves the Warward, and ends up losing his life to become a forestal. And of course, by the 2nd Chrons, all he has left is his song.
poor Caer-Caveral..."Damn!!! Wildwood was unbelievably cool!!!!!" - Fist&Faith
"Yeah Forestal is the one to be bowed to!! All hail Forestal of the pantaloon intelligencia!" - Skyweir
I'm not on the Watch often, but I always return eventually.
"Yeah Forestal is the one to be bowed to!! All hail Forestal of the pantaloon intelligencia!" - Skyweir
I'm not on the Watch often, but I always return eventually.
Nice post Darth. Earlier today I chided Ur-vile about pointing out one intelligent post you've made. Of course I was joking but, in response, he need look no further than this post for a suitable example. Nice work!
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
Thanks Brinn! But... actually... It was Tuvor... not I... Darth is Tuvor gone bad... Maybe I should change back...Brinn wrote:Nice post Darth. Earlier today I chided Ur-vile about pointing out one intelligent post you've made. Of course I was joking but, in response, he need look no further than this post for a suitable example. Nice work!