Bereks Queen

[Spirit of the Knight]

Hi all. Any ideas as to what happened to Bereks Queen once he won the war? Did he go back to Doriender Corishev to, once again serve her?

Apologies if this has already been addressed.

[wayfriend]

No specific word that I can think of.

But from the sound of it the realm ruled by the Queen and King faded away. The King was defeated: I presume he and his line ended in the war. The lack of water, caused by deforestation, caused them to abandon their lands. And the emergence of Berek as Lord-Fatherer seems to indicate that the people wished to abandon the monarchy for a new order of rule with Berek as their leader.

[hyarmion]

She probably just became a private citizen of the Land. Who knows? She may even have become a Lord of Berek's Council.

Of course, Berek may have married her after the death of the King, but that is nowhere stated (and you think it would be).

[Krazy Kat]

Who else is called a queen in the chronicles?
I can only think of two characters: Lena and Infelice.

Saltheart Foamfollower called Lena a queen to pacify her madness in the Power That Preserves.
And Infelice is described as being regal and majestic.

So maybe the queen became Kastenessen's lover when Berek made the Staff of Law. The King, I suspect, was garroted on Gallow's Howe - a reversal of the story in which Hile Troy was involved with.

The fall of Doriendor Corishev may also be a reversal of the siege of Revelstone.

[Thorhammerhand]

It is however stated in TPTP that Berek did not marry his queen. There is no word on what happened to her.

IMHO, (eh-brands are probably gonna kill me for this, but still),

Spoiler

she got possessed by shamdi, and jumped/was pushed/fell to her death to spite Berek's victory.

The king was killed by the fire lions.

I whole heartedly agree with Wayfriends post.

[Krazy Kat]

Of course this is all speculation.

The deforestation Wayfriend mentioned could well have been the outcome of a long long long siege, on DC. Something akin to this -> www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_VlXg_4YGc


The Vortex of Trepidation, to my mind, is how the King escaped his inevitable defeat and fled towards Cravenshaw. I imagine that it was the Elohim who eventually rode in, like the cavalry, and forced the King to reveal his trump card, which is really just an old trick as demonstrated by Lord Foul's attack on Hile Troy's army at DC in the Illearth War.

The important thing about all this, is, the actual moment the King sees his approaching defeat. Because at that moment he had to have abandoned all hope, then disregarding his generals he would have pulled the most diabolical spell he knew of. Somewhat like the breaking of the Law of Life/Law of Death. This he would have thought would assure his return when Berek caught up with him, and eventually "chopped eez ed off".
I'm assuming that once the King had cast his darkest spell he saw hope for an escape and so refused to accept the face of defeat, and battled on to the very end.

But what the King beheld in that terrible moment, I have absolutely no idea.

All these things are explained to some extent in the first, and second, chronicles. Lord Foul the Despiser refusing to acknowledge his defeat in Ridjeck Thome is a prime example of this.

Just speculation

[DrPaul]

There are some things I could draw attention to which would help to answer the question, but they'd be Fatal Revenant spoilers.

However, there are another couple of matters to be considered.

1. Where did Berek and Damelon have their capital between the time Doriendor Corishev had to be abandoned and the time Revelstone was built?

2. Where was the seaport that Berek sailed from and returned to in his quest for the One Tree?

To me the most plausible answer to both questions would be Seareach. My reasons for saying so include:

1. It seems more likely that the Giants would have found Damelon soon after they arrived rather than by trudging long distances around a Land of which they, at that time, knew nothing about the geography.

2. We learn in TWL that the Seareach hinterland is extremely fertile, and thus would be a sensible place to locate a city close by.

3. Following on from the previous point, an environment capable of supporting a population of up to a thousand Giants would be certainly capable of supporting a human settlement of several thousand.

4. Seareach is the only place in the Lower Land where it would be safe to build a seaport.

5. However, Seareach would have been an awkward place from which to govern the Land. This would not have been a huge problem during the period of peace between the defeat of Berek's King and the first corruption of the Demondim, but Damelon probably had the oracular vision to know what his successors would have to deal with, and certainly would have had the wisdom to realise that they would probably have to deal with trouble from Foul and his forces sooner or later, and so realised that the site of Revelstone was a better place for a capital. Hence the deal with the Giants to build a new capital for the humans of the Land and gift them Seareach to remake to their needs.

This, of course, is all speculation, but it has a certain logic.

[Krazy Kat]

There are some things I could draw attention to which would help to answer the question, but they'd be Fatal Revenant spoilers.


2. Where was the seaport that Berek sailed from and returned to in his quest for the One Tree?

I've never been convinced that Berek actually left the Land in order to make the Staff of Law.
The Staff is a tool of the Land, which seems logical that it was made in the Land, by Berek - and, I suspect, Ceariol Wildwood.

(It may even be that Andelain was the product of the Staff of Law and the greatest achievement of Berek's time.) of course, feel free to prove me wrong

The quest of the One Tree was very much like a "wild goose chase", and would have been a total failure if not for Vain's forearm changing into ebony wood. Remember that Vain was given to Thomas Covenant in Andelain, from not just Saltheart Foamfollower, but by all his friends - and that includes Caer Caverall the Last Forestal who was once Hile Troy.

[peter]

Wow! All you guys always seem to know shedloads more than me about what went on in the Lands past - you know, the distant history that was always being refered to in the Chrons; stuff that I took in at the time of reading, but dissapeared like a whisp of smoke once I had moved on to a new bit of the story. Does anyone know if there is like a 'time line' thread of the mythology/history of the land any where on the Watch. If not perhaps one of you guys.........

[wayfriend]

peter, I had participated a little ways back on a thread about Raver origins, in which the timeline was heavilly discussed. That thread is here (beware of Final Chronicles spoilers therein). Of course, in the process, the timeline of Berek and the King and Queen and the Forests and the Colossus were also discussed.

[High Lord Tolkien]

Wow! All you guys always seem to know shedloads more than me about what went on in the Lands past - you know, the distant history that was always being refered to in the Chrons; stuff that I took in at the time of reading, but dissapeared like a whisp of smoke once I had moved on to a new bit of the story. Does anyone know if there is like a 'time line' thread of the mythology/history of the land any where on the Watch. If not perhaps one of you guys.........

Don't be too amazed.
It's all fan fiction I'm afraid.
Speculation and hopeful thinking.

[jackgiantkiller]

Krazecat you wrong girl. in TOT they see a place on the one tree where a branch has been broken off,

Spoiler

also FR makes it clear Berek did leave the land

[wayfriend]

On the other hand, Donaldson has admitted that the One Tree isn't always in the same place.

Perhaps I never made it clear that over long spans of time the One Tree, well, moves around. Such archetypal creations don't cease to exist: the sinking of the Isle didn't unmake the One Tree, but simply took it out of reach. I've always assumed that when Berek found the One Tree it was somewhere else entirely, and that the challenges of approaching it and obtaining wood from it were (apart from the Guardian, another archetypal creation) entirely different than those faced by Covenant et al.

(09/10/2004)

[Krazy Kat]

Krazecat you wrong girl. in TOT they see a place on the one tree where a branch has been broken off,

Spoiler

also FR makes it clear Berek did leave the land

From one graveler to another who do you think it was hiding behind the one tree?

Spoiler

If you could spoiler the place in FR where it says Berek left the Land, much appreciated.

[Darkdenubis]

Berek was at the isle of the One Tree, but where the isle was at the time is a matter of speculation.

In TIEW it is stated that the old capital was abandoned after Berek won the war against the king, but it doesn't state where the people went. My take is that, after Berek returned with the Staff, he gathered what survivors he could and wandered about, teaching and growing in power, but never really establishing a new area in which to live, but rather living off the land and learning it. Eventually, the people spread out, for at least some must have been along the coast of what would eventually be Seareach, and met the Giants when they arrived. As for the others, they applied what they had learned and made the villages of stone and tree that dotted the land.

[jackgiantkiller]

K.K. just for the record im a groveller not a graveler,

Spoiler

I dont think its directly said that he leaves the land but as the insequent is a teacher and a guide, it would seam about right that he did I cant see him wandering the land and the one tree just appearing in the land.

[Krazy Kat]

K.K. just for the record im a groveller not a graveler,

Fair enough, Jackgiantkiller! We all began as a groveler.
When your post count reaches 100 you'll be elevated to a new rank.

Spoiler

I dont think its directly said that he leaves the land but as the insequent is a teacher and a guide, it would seam about right that he did I cant see him wandering the land and the one tree just appearing in the land.

[/quote]

I've said this before in an other thread that it could be possible that the original One Tree was the old Gilden tree in the courtyard of Revelstone.

Imagine if you will, before the Giants built Revelstone, the One Tree was situated in a cave.
After Berek found the cave, and hence, the One Tree, he passed the Staff of Law on to Damelon Giantfriend. Damelon's stories and adventures with the Giants are unclear to me but what seems possible is that the Giants built Revelstone AROUND the tree not only to ward it but to do honor to Damelon and to show in grand and spectacular fashion the importance of the tree for the Land's future and the survival of all who dwell there.

All speculation of course, but I believe worthy of further investigation.

[peter]

An evocative speculation for sure KK, and a good one - not quite sure how it could be investigated furthur but I do like the idea.
An unrelated aside is that I have never been sure of your gender KK, from your name. Kat could be the female as in 'Meow' or the male as in the sixties use of the term. I assume that your lack of response to Jack calling you 'girl' puts you into the female place - and as of an instant (ala shrodingers cat in the box thought experiment) the universe becomes a different place.

[Krazy Kat]

Below the avatar is the gender sign.

[Orlion]

Yep, if one's a "graveler", that one is male. Females are labeled "eh-brands." Of course, sometimes the Watcher doesn't reveal its sex, in which case no classification will be found beneath the avatar.

And that comic is crazy!