What SRD said about AATE at WFC

[thewormoftheworld'send]

I see...and the point is taken.
OTOH, I'm appalled at myself that I wrote it in a way that made you think I was appealing to the literal/technical. I meant to use that only as an analogy to point at what I see as the metaphorical weakness of the Worm as Indifference [if that is really what it is...and it might be].
I think it is too simple in relation to other metaphors/symbols in a few nebulous ways, but at least one fairly specific way:
For me [and again, this may be idiosyncratic] one thread, among several, that runs through my reading of the Chron's is that everyone, even...especially, perhaps...LF works because whatever they are they have the capacity to be something else.
This doesn't seem to be the case for the Worm [heh...unless there is another sense in which the Worm can be "Awakened"...and that might be an interesting thing to happen].
Of course it makes sense that there is at least one fundamental thing, like the Worm, that is an unalterable fact of existence, is just [paraphrasing/altering someone] brutally, or indifferently, so...yet, in a metaphorical/symbolic world of externalized human facets and choice as an essential force, I would prefer an external Indifference that has chosen/is transformable.

You may prefer it, but what remains unalterable is not stone and sea, but life and death. Everything dies, and this fact remains indifferent to your preferences.

The Land's Earth, as a living world, has to contain within itself the means of its own decay and death. It's just, I guess one could say, the genetics of that world.

[Vraith]

You may prefer it, but what remains unalterable is not stone and sea, but life and death. Everything dies, and this fact remains indifferent to your preferences.

The Land's Earth, as a living world, has to contain within itself the means of its own decay and death. It's just, I guess one could say, the genetics of that world.

Well, I know that, naturally...and yet [being literal, again, but pointing at the metaphorical] I insist there is a fundamental difference between me falling down dead of a heart attack, and someone shooting me in the heart.
Heart attack and gun are perfectly indifferent...can't be anything else...the gunman is something else entirely...and far more interesting.

[Zarathustra]

Vraith, I'm not sure exactly where the point of disagreement is here. "Heart attack and gun are perfectly indifferent" sounds like what we're saying: the "indifference" of the universe toward your continued existence. "[T]he gunman is something else entirely...and far more interesting," is Despite.

And then there's Love, which resists both, but is ultimately unable to alter the fact of mortality. But parents can--and must--make way for their children. In my scenario on the last page, the parents can even sacrifice themselves for their children.

Thus, life goes on, despite the inescapable truth of death. Whether there is overall growth (increases in life) or overall destruction (descreases in life) is merely a matter of balance between Love and Despite. When the balance is favorable for growth, the Worm sleeps. When the balance is favorable for destruction, the Worm awakens. But neither changes the fact that the Worm is always there.

We can look at that ever-presence of mortality and be hopeless and nihilistic, or we can look at the Power That Preserves, Love that resists it, and have hope. Both attitudes represent an honest confrontation with the existence of the Worm, but one is cool while the other sucks.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

You may prefer it, but what remains unalterable is not stone and sea, but life and death. Everything dies, and this fact remains indifferent to your preferences.

The Land's Earth, as a living world, has to contain within itself the means of its own decay and death. It's just, I guess one could say, the genetics of that world.

Well, I know that, naturally...and yet [being literal, again, but pointing at the metaphorical] I insist there is a fundamental difference between me falling down dead of a heart attack, and someone shooting me in the heart.
Heart attack and gun are perfectly indifferent...can't be anything else...the gunman is something else entirely...and far more interesting.

The Worm was going to wake up anyway. Even the Elohim were always just delaying the inevitable.