Fire-Lions?

[Lord Zombiac]

I love fire lions too, but I have to ask, "What purpose would they have served?"
The only time they were in Mount Thunder was in Lost Deep, and I can't see how summoning them would have been of any use.

[Lord Zombiac]

It seems to me that SRD just whisks up banes and potent theurgies every time he wants to introduce a situation of threat. While my thoughts on She Who Must Not Be Named can be set aside for another thread, I do feel that inasmuch as SRD deems it completely acceptable to just create a massively potent bane from nowhere, that we've never really heard of before to carry the story along, he equally deems it acceptable to drop others into obscurity.

This is the most legitimate argument against the Last Chronicles that I have heard yet...

But not for me!

I think Donaldson actually pulls it off!

I think the secret is meaning. Donaldson isn't just making crap up to fill a bunch of pages and dazzle fantasy addicts... Everything he writes pertains to the greater overall spiritual struggles gripping our characters. This gives it meaning!

[TheSeventhWard]

The only time they were in Mount Thunder was in Lost Deep, and I can't see how summoning them would have been of any use.

I agree with you, I think they would have been grossly inadequate for the task. But my point was more about the lack of consistency of SRD's current writing in that to me the Last Chronicles doesn't seem like a natural progression of the greater story started in the First and Second Chronicles, but rather a bolt on.

In their desperation to escape 'She', I would have at least expected someone to have mentioned or suggested that the Fire-Lions might be summoned, even if Stave or Covenant then explained how futile the attempt would be. SRD does re-use elements of the first two Chronicles... but only when it suits the current story arc, and I just don't feel that some of the smaller details are there that would pull the whole three Chronicles closer together.

Throughout the whole Lost Deep excursion, I don't even think High Lord Prothall even got a mention.

[Fuzzy_Logic]

I had no problem with finding more of the banes of Mount Thunder--I *wanted* that to happen.

I was a little surprised to find one more powerful that the Illearth Stone, which I assume to be the strongest--but that was my mistake. We've known for a long time that there are powers Foul is afraid of, so it's logical that the Stone was the most useful, not the most powerful.

But making SWMNBN into a fundamental building block of creation, another timeless/eternal entity is cheating in my mind. None of the previous lore or legend really supported it, and it changes too much of the cosmology...

Except...

Except the First Chronicles had a definite "woman problem." Women just weren't really present in it, and their experiences and issues weren't explored. This is partly because the focus is so tight on Covenant. Lena and Elena are completely defined by their status as Covenant's "lover" and "daughter", but then, lots of people are defined by their relationship with Covenant. It's hard ot say that the portrayal of any given femalesupporting character is sexist in such a tight arc.

The problem is that the focus on Covenant got built into the world. The Creator, Lord Foul, their relationship to Covenant, to lore and power, to fredom and madness--they were all fundamentally male issues. When he brought in a female lead in the Second Chrons, she didn't really fit in to the world as nicely.

I think SRD has gown a lot since he wrote the first books and decided that appeasing his conscience by doing justice to women was more important than maintaining strict continuity.

[Horrim Carabal]

I had no problem with finding more of the banes of Mount Thunder--I *wanted* that to happen.

I was a little surprised to find one more powerful that the Illearth Stone, which I assume to be the strongest--but that was my mistake. We've known for a long time that there are powers Foul is afraid of, so it's logical that the Stone was the most useful, not the most powerful.

Yes, that's how I see it as well.

I am very interested to find out how exactly Kastenessen is "using" She to produce Kevin's Dirt, as stated. How did the mad Elohim forge an alliance with the equally mad bane?

[TheFallen]

I was a little surprised to find one more powerful that the Illearth Stone, which I assume to be the strongest--but that was my mistake. We've known for a long time that there are powers Foul is afraid of, so it's logical that the Stone was the most useful, not the most powerful.

You're forgetting that, as many have said before me, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I guess the Seven Hells also have no fury like that either - no wonder Foul's quite possibly also afraid of SWMNBM.

I am very interested to find out how exactly Kastenessen is "using" She to produce Kevin's Dirt, as stated. How did the mad Elohim forge an alliance with the equally mad bane?

Well, they were going out with each other - at least in part - albeit a long while back. Maybe Kasty's got some sort of hold over SHE - perhaps some embarrassing personal videos taken when they were dating, that he's now threatening to post up on YouTube unless SHE does what he wants?

[Horrim Carabal]

Well, they were going out with each other - at least in part - albeit a long while back. Maybe Kasty's got some sort of hold over SHE - perhaps some embarrassing personal videos taken when they were dating, that he's now threatening to post up on YouTube unless SHE does what he wants?

This reminds me of the whole "Linden is going to be kicked in the you-know-what" prediction from that other thread.

[Rigel]

It seems to me that SRD just whisks up banes and potent theurgies every time he wants to introduce a situation of threat. While my thoughts on She Who Must Not Be Named can be set aside for another thread, I do feel that inasmuch as SRD deems it completely acceptable to just create a massively potent bane from nowhere, that we've never really heard of before to carry the story along, he equally deems it acceptable to drop others into obscurity.

This is the most legitimate argument against the Last Chronicles that I have heard yet...

Frankly, I don't think he does enough of it. They always made statements about all the banes buried under Mt Thunder... but whenever we encounter a bane, it's a fragment of the Ill-Earth Stone.. Come on Steve, how many times do we have to encounter those? Seriously, give us a new bane once in a while!

[ninjaboy]

It seems to me that SRD just whisks up banes and potent theurgies every time he wants to introduce a situation of threat. While my thoughts on She Who Must Not Be Named can be set aside for another thread, I do feel that inasmuch as SRD deems it completely acceptable to just create a massively potent bane from nowhere, that we've never really heard of before to carry the story along, he equally deems it acceptable to drop others into obscurity.

This is the most legitimate argument against the Last Chronicles that I have heard yet...

Frankly, I don't think he does enough of it. They always made statements about all the banes buried under Mt Thunder... but whenever we encounter a bane, it's a fragment of the Ill-Earth Stone.. Come on Steve, how many times do we have to encounter those? Seriously, give us a new bane once in a while!

So how do you feel when you read about the Feroce, with their emerald-green flames, and reminders of the illearth stone?

[Rigel]

So how do you feel when you read about the Feroce, with their emerald-green flames, and reminders of the illearth stone?

I'll have to check the Bloodguard's trip in TIW, but at least in the 2nd Chrons they were green w/o a fragment of the stone. That just happened to be their color.