Depression

[Fist and Faith]

Marsha Linehan revealed that she had severe mental illness when she was 17:
www.nytimes.com/2011/06/23/health/23lives.html?_r=2

[aliantha]

Fascinating article, Fist.

[Linna Heartbooger]

As for me, I have had quite a slip in the last week or so. Many reasons, not worth rehashing. But it is effecting my work. I haven't been going to work. I know the signs. sigh.....

Btw, this post stuck in my head. I know my signs too. One of the things begins with the interestingly subtle - when I want to drink more cups of coffee. A cup of coffee as a symbol for relationship and real, heart-opening conversation... becomes a substitute for those things.

I'm showing every sign of having a touch of depression and not -dealing with- my own problems.

The rants in my head about things I am frustrated about "If only the church were different in these ways:" ...and then I look at myself, and I see I am doing little about the problems which _I_ could do in the little corner of the church I am participating in.

I think I've composed (in my head) about 20 to 50 posts to you guys on the Watch, most of which will never be posted.
In theory I want to tell different people how much you inspire me, encourage different people, etc.
Except what is the test of whether I really wanted to say something?
Whether I actually say it.
Because if I don't do it, on some level, that means I didn't want to.
Because I lack courage.

Most days, speaking ones mind was a really dangerous business in the home I grew up in.
But speaking ones mind really IS a dangerous business, so I definitely came away from that experience with quite the set of strengths and weaknesses.
So much restraint, but so much shrinking back in fear.

I think one of the good things about depression is that it makes you look deeper and seek a greater vision than what you've been "coasting" with before. I think I've gotten a quite discernible gift from every single time I've been seriously depressed.
I could go through listing the ones from the last few years.
Always different, always unique.

Well, there's my blabber. Why do I write things like this? Sometimes, SOMETIMES, once I put them out in the open, I start working on my problems.

[aliantha]

Linna, I have to tell you that I've started, and then bailed on, *numerous* posts over the years. So it's not just you -- everybody does it.

And hugs are always welcome, right? So, for you:

[Linna Heartbooger]

Linna, I have to tell you that I've started, and then bailed on, *numerous* posts over the years. So it's not just you -- everybody does it.

And hugs are always welcome, right? So, for you:

Btw, thanks ali.
I just get exasperated because I track the pattern in myself:
I know where it comes from and I (fancy I) know where it's going.

And YES; in fact, hugs are very much sought.

[Cambo]

Hugs for Linna. I do the "abort post" thing too, sometimes on completely mundane things that aren't the remotest bit personal or deep. Is this a symptom of lacking courage? Perhaps. Sometimes I do lack courage. Sometimes, I behave like a fully fledged coward.

Doesn't mean I actually am a coward though. Or that those times I let fear get the better of me negate the times I overcome fear to do good to those around me. Same goes for you.

[Menolly]

Hugs for Linna. I do the "abort post" thing too, sometimes on completely mundane things that aren't the remotest bit personal or deep. Is this a symptom of lacking courage? Perhaps. Sometimes I do lack courage. Sometimes, I behave like a fully fledged coward.

Doesn't mean I actually am a coward though. Or that those times I let fear get the better of me negate the times I overcome fear to do good to those around me. Same goes for you.

Same for everyone.
Well said.

[aliantha]

To be perfectly honest, most of the time my aborted posts are a smart remark that I think better of before hitting "submit".

Like this very post, for instance. <hesitate> <meh...> <hesitate> <oh what the hell!>

[sgt.null]

and i seem unable to abort any post. :):)

[Savor Dam]

understood.

I was also conditioned from an early age to never abandon my post...more's the pity.

[sgt.null]

but mine has become almost obsessional. lol

sometimes even i wonder how i have managed so many posts...

[Linna Heartbooger]

Just gonna be contrary, and say that I don't think the strength negates the weaknesses so easily, Cambo. But there is hope in this: If I follow the pattern of weaknesses, I may see something useful about myself.

The good and the bad... I have begun to map out where it comes from, but I don't -truly- know where it's going.

On the positive side, I -DO- think that when someone does something that is unusually difficult for him or her because it breaks an old pattern, and requires courage, it is of great value and worthy of extra-special celebration.
(even if it's something that seems very ordinary - even piddling to the unknowing observer.)

And yes, ali, the "restraint" part is the STRENGTH side of the coin. We'e all been around people who can't imagine -not- saying whatever pops into their heads.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Also, Fist, THANKS for posting that article.

Here are some of my favorite bits:

No one knows how many people with severe mental illness live what appear to be normal, successful lives, because such people are not in the habit of announcing themselves. They are too busy juggling responsibilities, paying the bills, studying, raising families — all while weathering gusts of dark emotions or delusions that would quickly overwhelm almost anyone else.

This is so true.

But now Dr. Linehan was closing in on two seemingly opposed principles that could form the basis of a treatment: acceptance of life as it is, not as it is supposed to be; and the need to change, despite that reality and because of it.

Dr. Linehan’s own emerging approach to treatment — now called dialectical behavior therapy, or D.B.T. — would also have to include day-to-day skills. A commitment means very little, after all, if people do not have the tools to carry it out.

It also mentioned that she relied on therapists herself, off and on... I don't think I'd want to go to someone who wasn't going to someone else.

Urrrgh, I "decided" to not go for counseling during the summer, cause things seemed to be going "swimmingly." Now I think I should.

[Cambo]

Just gonna be contrary, and say that I don't think the strength negates the weaknesses so easily, Cambo. But there is hope in this: If I follow the pattern of weaknesses, I may see something useful about myself.

I didn't say the strength negates the weakness, nor did I say anything about any of this being easy. I said that weakness doesn't negate strength. It would be inconsistent of me to claim the reverse was untrue.

By the same token, now you've claimed that strength can't negate weakness, you can't consistently claim that your weakness negates your strength. Gotcha.

[Linna Heartbooger]

Point!

Thank you, Cambo.
I totally misread your post and put the words in there the way I expected to see them.
And not as they actually were.

Sorry for that rush to judgement, and thanks for calling me on that!

By the same token, now you've claimed that strength can't negate weakness, you can't consistently claim that your weakness negates your strength. Gotcha.

Oh yes; that's something I didn't claim. (I don't know if the logic quite suffices, though.)

But that I wouldn't have thought to apply to myself. (Not just now, anyway.) So thanks!

[Cambo]

Oh yes; that's something I didn't claim. (I don't know if the logic quite suffices, though.)

But that I wouldn't have thought to apply to myself. (Not just now, anyway.) So thanks!

No, the logic isn't airtight, I agree. Speaking purely logically, there's nothing mutually exclusive about weakness being able to negate strength but strength being unable to negate weakness. But, think on this, that would mean that weakness is in fact more powerful than strength. Or that fear is more powerful than courage. I don't believe that.

Anyway, I know that's not what you were saying. I was talking more about a moral inconsistency. As you say, you wouldn't have thought to consider the fact that you can and have been strong and courageous, have overcome fear and extended compassion towards others. Nor would you think that those things stand as they are in spite of other times when you were weak and afraid. Look:

If it's possible to "see" or useful to remember- don't forget that you have helped others, and will yet again.

(I certainly think of this thread and your contributions to it whenever I go to counselling!)

The first thing you thought of when hearing that I was depressed was the good that I had done to others. And you were aware that I was unlikely to be aware of that where I was at the time. So you extended your compassion, and reminded me.

But it's much harder to apply the same perspective to ourselves, especially when depressed. That's what I mean by moral inconsistency. That's why places like this thread are so great, and that's why I posted to you in the first place. Quite simply, it was my turn.

[lorin]

As for me, I have had quite a slip in the last week or so. Many reasons, not worth rehashing. But it is effecting my work. I haven't been going to work. I know the signs. sigh.....

Btw, this post stuck in my head. I know my signs too. One of the things begins with the interestingly subtle - when I want to drink more cups of coffee. A cup of coffee as a symbol for relationship and real, heart-opening conversation... becomes a substitute for those things.

I'm showing every sign of having a touch of depression and not -dealing with- my own problems.

The rants in my head about things I am frustrated about "If only the church were different in these ways:" ...and then I look at myself, and I see I am doing little about the problems which _I_ could do in the little corner of the church I am participating in.

I think I've composed (in my head) about 20 to 50 posts to you guys on the Watch, most of which will never be posted.
In theory I want to tell different people how much you inspire me, encourage different people, etc.
Except what is the test of whether I really wanted to say something?
Whether I actually say it.
Because if I don't do it, on some level, that means I didn't want to.
Because I lack courage.

Most days, speaking ones mind was a really dangerous business in the home I grew up in.
But speaking ones mind really IS a dangerous business, so I definitely came away from that experience with quite the set of strengths and weaknesses.
So much restraint, but so much shrinking back in fear.

I think one of the good things about depression is that it makes you look deeper and seek a greater vision than what you've been "coasting" with before. I think I've gotten a quite discernible gift from every single time I've been seriously depressed.
I could go through listing the ones from the last few years.
Always different, always unique.

Well, there's my blabber. Why do I write things like this? Sometimes, SOMETIMES, once I put them out in the open, I start working on my problems.

Ahh Linna, I am the Queen, the Royal Queen of Self Doubt. I understand deleting posts. I delete 50 percent of what I write, the other half I come back and edit and edit.

I am always scared I will say something wrong. I know I will not offend, there are just too many filters in my brain, but I am very scared that if the truth comes out, the Real me, the real stories, the real feelings surface, I will scare people away. They will look at me as a lunatic. The truth is at this site that is more of a problem than other places. Let me explain.... I spent many years at mental health sites. There people wallowed and whined ceaselessly so I was not afraid to express the illness in my brain. It was accepted, even expected. Eventually, whether I got healthier, or just plain bored of the paralyzing self pity, I stopped going to these sites. There is more to that story but that is another post. I spend my time here, amongst, yes folks I'm going to say it, saner folks who don't wallow in self pity. So I am much more afraid of rejection here. I value everyone here so I am careful.

Recently I was talking to one of the members here about revealing the past. After 5 years of relative health, I am at a point where the past must be revealed. My therapist always told me I could not get completely well unless I own my past (and it is quite a past). I always told him that the past is the past and I choose to forget it. But now I am coming around to his point of view. How can I maintain relationships of any kind when every word, every action is filtered? I am so guarded against the past I cannot find a future.

I don't know exactly how I will do it, a story, a post or just say it. But it is coming. Probably not here, because I think I would risk too much here.

All I can say to make you feel better is to know you are not alone. And maybe, in the end, that is all you need to know.

[Cambo]

"Saner people".......Where did you say you were posting again, Lorin?

[deer of the dawn]

lorin, your post is thought-provoking because on a forum like this one walks a line between feeling safe (i.e., anonymous, faceless, risk-free) and feeling tentative, seeking acceptance and community.

There was a point in my life where my membership on a different forum was the only place I felt understood and accepted for who I was. But my life changed and I would say that God moved me away from that forum with the purpose of getting me out of such a safe place because I was ready to rejoin the land of face-to-face personal relationships. Which are inherently risky. But few things worth having are gained without risk.

If you value everyone here, lorin, then it's probably a great place to just hang out and not feel obligated to share your deep dark past (something I've never done online either). Some things are probably better done face-to-face with someone you know will not "log off" of the relationship if what you say is heavy or difficult. And I know how hard it is when there isn't someone like that in your life, which is why I pray so much. Nothing is too heavy for God, he knows it all already, and nothing will make Him leave, either.

There's a balance between sharing transparently, and opening up too much for what you want this to be long-term.

(Now I get to the 'do I post this or delete' part....??)

[Cambo]

Interesting perspective, Deer of the Dawn. Personally, I've found the instinct to shut myself away (from everyone, online or IRL) is so great that I defintely fall on the "transparent" side of that balance. With everyone.

Everyone's needs are different, though, and placing emphasis on IRL support is undoubtedly good advice.