People using fire inthe first chrons!!!???

[fightingmyinstincts]

Just noticed this, people burning(!) wood(!) in the Land! The healer in Morinmoss, Triock-Raver afterwards, in IEW the bloodguard on the raft when Hyrim is sick....They gather dead wood and burn it, when there is no lillianrill rods or graveling to be had.....but it just seems weird....I mean, is n't that not right?

[Sevothtarte]

Just noticed this, people burning(!) wood(!) in the Land! The healer in Morinmoss, Triock-Raver afterwards [...] but it just seems weird....I mean, is n't that not right?

Go and tell Triock-Raver that it's wrong to burn wood cause it's against the Law and everything. Go on, tell him!

[Nav]

As for the healer, in a place where wood and stone have such power, the destruction of such materials as part of a ritual is likely to impart considerable power.

[Reisheiruhime]

I, Turiya, possessed ol' Triock. I don't see what the problem is. The wood was already dead, so what's the big deal? It felt no pain. It was d-e-a-d, dead. Oh and plus, I was evil then so whoopty-do.

[FMI]

Cool idea about the imparting grreat power, sorta like a sacrifice or something....I like that! FMI means fightingmyinstincts ya know, not logged in an' all...

[Ryzel]

It is reasonable to assume that people that did not have access to the lore necessary would have to burn wood to warm themselves. Presumably this is one of the reasons the one forest was destroyed in the first place. (Although the most likely one is that it was simply destroyed to make way for farmland.)

I guess this would not count as wrong for people that was not earthfriends.

[fightingmyinstincts]

The one forest was destroyed in/before Berek's time. Y'know, Berek the Lord-Fatherer? There was no lore before then, or at least no Earthpower not-burning-wood kinda lore......If there had been lore and they had known the Forest was alive they wouldn't have sundered it an' all that...believe it say that somewhere..."And they realised too late" sorta thing...perhaps around somewhere in IEW? I don't know...

[Ryzel]

I know that the forest was destroyed before the time of Berek. If it had not been it would have been difficult for Berek to get to Mt. Thunder after the battle.

What I do not know is just the sequence of events. Did the forestals appear before or after the destruction of the forest? I will assume the latter, as I think it unlikely that the forest could have been destroyed if there had been forestals there to protect it. This means that the sequence would go something like this:

1. The old forest is in the upper land. Ravers live in the lower lands.
2. The ravers attack the forest, the elohim set the Colossus to enforce a ban against them backed by the power of the forest.
3. The ravers instigate a campaign against the forest by influencing the kingdoms of the south (Doriendor Corishev?) and makes the humans cut down the forest.
4. The elohim "creates" the forestals to protect the remaining forest.
5. The earthpower speaks to Berek and gives humans their first direct link to the earthpower.

The unanswered question here is: Did the people of the old kingdoms have enough earthlore to avoid burning wood? I think not.

[fightingmyinstincts]

The old kingdoms? No. That's what I'm saying. They had to; there wasn't lore for human use at that time, I don't think...but in the time I'm talking about.....I mean, only a Gravelingas could make graveling, but any Stonedownor seemed able to use it, so I assume it worked the same with Woodhelvennin....Wasn't Triock giving it away? And every other instance of burning wood in the first chrons...wasn't this messed up? TC was shocked by the use of that means of heat and light in the second chrons...Oh well...maybe it's just a screw up....And what a bout the haruchai? Do they still burn wood off in their mountains? Awfully cold there...and no lore that we know of...

[matrixman]

The Haruchai did things their way, and who would dare tell them otherwise? We don't know definitively that they chopped wood for fire, but it's a fair assumption, since they didn't use any lore (that we know of). That they would even use tools to chop wood might dismay folks, but what's the alternative? Using their bare hands and martial arts skills alone to whack down trees up in the mountains? Very inefficient, and a little foolish-looking. Besides, isn't the mountain realm of the Haruchai considered to be beyond the border proper of The Land? In which case, is The Land's citizens' oath of service to the Earthpower really applicable to the Haruchai? If you were a Land dweller, perhaps you might go to the Haruchai's home and huff and puff in righteous indignation at their lack of respect for the inherent Earthpower in trees...but I have a feeling the Haruchai would be rather unimpressed by your display. They, after all, invoked the Earthpower when they took up the Vow to become Bloodguard, and the Vow surpassed any mere, mortal Oath of Peace sworn by the humans of The Land. In other words, you'd probably look like some ungrateful dork to them. So, in light of all this, I think we should maybe just give the Haruchai a wee bit of slack for needing to burn wood for basic warmth and cooking!

(No trees or animals were harmed in the making of this post.)

[aTOMiC]

MM, I'm getting real tired of coming along behind you and agreeing with most everything you say. Excellent points all. Bottom line the bloodguard did what they had to do (which pretty much defines them.) Lore practicing Lords and everyday landspeople just wouldn't burn wood .

[dANdeLION]

Matrixman, I'm sure the Haruchai did not use axes. They chopped down trees wiiiiiiiiiiiith.....A HERRING!!!

[matrixman]

Matrixman, I'm sure the Haruchai did not use axes. They chopped down trees wiiiiiiiiiiiith.....A HERRING!!!

(I may get lynched by the Forestals of the Watch...)

[[Syl]]

Garrotted, perhaps.

[matrixman]

[Romeo]

Did you know that Donaldson got his inspiration for the Forestals from the Knights Who Say Ni? In the original draft, the Forestal demanded a sacrifice, and Mhoram had to go on a little side quest to a village several leagues to the south. Then Troy said, "Just offer him the damn Giant-raver. They're old enemies, remember?" And there was a line of shrubs around the base of Gallows Howe. But the editor thought that it was too direct of a reference to the movie, so it was trimmed (pun intended).

Spoiler

(behold, I am Romeo - the spreader of fertilizer and other things that smelleth)

[Satansheart Soulcrusher]

Methinks you're pulling our collective leg, but funny nonetheless.

I would have thought that those who don't have the lore to make graveling pots glow or magic fire come from the end of a stick have to make fire the old fashioned way so they can cook their food and keep their toes warm (although when you're a leper you can't feel much in your toes, but that still doesn't explain how a white bathrobe is sufficient to keep a man warm when in almost Arctic conditions...).

I think the only thing that is strange is the healer's house where she has a fire going even in the middle of Morinmoss. Mind you, Morinmoss is not as lively as Garotting Deep so maybe she could get away with it as long as she kept it in her hut and didn't go near the trees with it? As for wood, I guess picking up dead twigs is OK as long as you don't go chopping bits off live trees.

[[Syl]]

The Healer in Morinmoss was allowed to have her fire because it was underground and made from dead wood. As is shown when she tries to attack Covenant, the forest is not without means to defend itself.