The Pantheon of "the Land"

Book 3 of the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

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The Pantheon of "the Land"

Post by Orlion »

Obviously, it'd go beyond the Land as well, but I don't want to confuse worlds ;)

So, as far as we know, there are four beings that could be said to be part of this pantheon: The Creator, Lord Foul, She Who Must Not Be Named, and the Worm at World's End. It is my belief that these are all Eternals, having existed in the cosmos before the creation of the Arch. Each one has two states: bound or unbound by Time, and each can be said to have a relationship to the other, both in terms of 'myth' and 'concept'.

The Creator is.... well, the creative force. His opposite is the Worm, which is the destructive force. Unbound by Time, he is able to set things up, form matter, etc. However, once that creation is bound by Time, he no longer can mess with it without destroying it.

The Worm probably will continually try to devour everything if it is unbound by Time. Bound by Time, it slumbers or has to devour certain things before it is capable of bringing its hunger to the cosmos.

Foul is Despair, who's opposite is SHE, who is Love. I don't have much time to get more into this, so I'll end the post by labeling some points:

Creation does not exist without destruction and vice-versa, same with Love and Despair. You get rid of one, you get rid of the other.

It is also quite possible that the Creator uses his creation to restrict the Worm from mindlessly destroying the cosmos.

Just some thoughts.
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Post by earthbrah »

Orlion wrote:
Each one has two states: bound or unbound by Time, and each can be said to have a relationship to the other, both in terms of 'myth' and 'concept'.
I would also go so far as to say that they have a relationship in terms of origin as well. If myth and concept are present in their connection, then origin must not be far behind...

I find it intersting that Foul is impotent to act directly on the creation to get what he wants while in the bound-by-time state, while the Creator is essentially impotent to affect his creation directly while in the unbound-by-time state.
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Post by shadowbinding shoe »

The book introduced them in a different order:

the Creator's opposite is the Despiser (who is anti-life and beauty, the creative forces in the Creation)

SWMNBN, or Love's opposite was Indifference (or maybe some similar concept) who apparently, unlike the other three, did nothing so far.

The Worm is a force within the Land's universe. I think it became clear at the end of AATC that the Land's universe is a Geocentric one where the "Stars" are not entire star systems like in our universe but little lights that surround the Land like the Sun and the Moon.

You forgot to mention Covenant, his lover Linden, his son Roger and his wife Joan, and of course Jeremiah (the stepson) who seem to be the Avatars of the four different Gods.


Edit to add - Who represent who is not obvious. I think perhaps Covenant is tied to Foul, Linden to the Creator, Joan to Love and Roger to Indifference. Jeremiah may be the undefined new possibilities. He is less directly tied to Covenant.

Covenant was chosen by Foul at the beginning of the first book and each time he appeared the current order of things in the Land was destroyed to make way for new things. Linden was chosen by the Creator to supplement Covenant and was a positive Creative force that work to preserve and restore things. Their respective powers, the ring and the stuff fit into this.

Joan is the not all powerful Love that is motivated by her love for her husband and son and broken by betrayal. Roger is the utterly selfish bastard that only cares about himself and would let the world be devoured and destroyed because he is indifferent to it. His mother is a tool for his gain, his father means nothing to him.
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Post by Orlion »

Yeah, I definitely believe there's a relationship between the 'outside' characters and the Eternals. What makes it hard is that they, being human, have all the concepts of Love, Despair, Creation, and Death in them.

Covenant- As a writer, we can see some of Creation in him, and we've also seen Despair in there as well (he's also said plainly that it was in him). If I were to choose one, I'd choose 'Despair'. He's been associated with Foul for too long not to.

Linden- She has some Despair as well, but I think her aspects are more centered on Death and Love. The Death aspect seems to cover more her desire and ability to heal then Creation does. You could say that healing is merely keeping the Worm asleep a little while longer. However, she has also exhibited a lot of Love in her quest to free Jeremiah and her relationship/feelings toward Covenant. If I were to choose one, I'd choose SHE, but that's because of a theory I have that Jeremiah will trap Covenant and her in a construct. Under that theory, associating her with SHE is aesthetically pleasing :P

Jeremiah- Due to his constructs, I can not see him as anything else but the Creator.

Joan- I agree that she best exemplifies SHE, though she also has a smidgen of Despair.

Roger- He's a tough one. We obviously want to associate him with the bad guy (Foul) but as far as intentions are concerned, he may just as well also be a malevolent Creator (assuming the Creator is good).

Beyond all this, they are all bound in and by Death. Each one of these characters is dead in the real world.
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Post by wayfriend »

I don't think that the Worm should be a member of the Pantheon. The Worm is clearly part of the Earth - it's destructive side. And it may in fact be a metaphor and not actually be a Worm. (It may be, for example, the same thing as the Arch of Time, which is also a metaphor.) But anyway, as part of the Earth, it's not an Eternal.

(You could say, perhaps, that the Worm existed before the Earth. I would counter argue and say that the Earth existed in devouring-Worm form before it existed in slumbering-Worm form.)
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Post by Orlion »

Covenant said all the myths were true (whatever that means :P ). Here is an Elohim myth recounted by Pitchwife with some emphasis added by me (the Elohim version seems to be the same except for the use of Wurd and such in place of Worm).
"It is said among the Elohim, whose knowledge is wondrous, and difficult of contradiction" - Pitchwife conveyed a chortle of personal amusement - "that in the ancient and eternal youth of the cosmos, long ere the Earth came to occupy its place, the stars were as thick as sand throughout all the heavens. Where now we see multitudes of bright beings were formerly multitudes of multitudes, so that the cosmos was an ocean of stars from shore to shore, and the great depth of their present solitude was unknown to them - a sorrow which they could not have comprehended. They were the living peoples of the heavens, as unlike to us as gods. Grand and warm in their bright loveliness, they danced to music of their own making and were content.

"But far away across the heavens lived a being of another kind. The Worm. For ages it slumbered in peace - but when it awakened, as it awakens at the dawn of each new eon, it was afflicted with a ravenous hunger. Every creation contains destruction, as life contains death, and the Worm was destruction. Driven by its immense lust, it began to devour stars.

"Perhaps this Worm was not large among the stars, but its emptiness was large beyond measure, and it roamed the heavens, consuming whole seas of brightness, cutting great swaths of loneliness across the firmament. Writhing along the ages, avid and insatiable, it fed on all that lay within its reach, until the heavens became as sparsely peopled as a desert.

"Yet the devoured stars were beings as unlike to us as gods, and no Worm or doom could consume their power without cost. Having fed hugely, the Worm became listless and gravid. Though it could not sleep, for the eon's end of its slumber had not come, it felt a whelming desire for rest. Therefore it curled its tail about itself and sank into quiescence.

"And while the Worm rested, the power of the stars wrought within it. From its skin grew excrescences of stone and soil, water and air, and these growths multiplied upon themselves and multiplied until the very Earth beneath our feet took form. Still the power of the stars wrought, but now it gave shape to the surface of the Earth, forging the seas and the land. And then was brought forth life upon the Earth. Thus were born all the peoples of the Earth, the beasts of the land, the creatures of the deep - all the forests and greenswards from pole to pole. And thus from destruction came forth creation, as death gives rise to life.

"Therefore, Chosen," said Pitchwife firmly, "we live, and strive, and seek to define the sense of our being. And it is good, for though we compose a scant blink across the eyes of eternity, yet while the blink lasts we choose what we will, create what we may, and share ourselves with each other as the stars did ere they were bereaved. But it must pass. The Worm does not slumber. It merely rests. And the time must come when it is roused, or rouses itself. Then it will slough off this skin of rock and water to pursue its hunger across the cosmos until eon's end and slumber. For that reason, it is named the Worm of the World's End."
This implies to me the very real (and likely) possibility that the Worm existed before the Earth... that it had to exist. That the Creator made the world, in part, to contain the Worm while it could. Further, that the Worm is capable of taking down the Arch seems to also imply that it is originally from outside it.
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Post by wayfriend »

I certainly see lots of connections between the Elohim and the stars of the Heavens. The new information in AATE, that they are the "perfect food" for the Worm, seems to clinch it.

If so, then they would be "eternals", although not on the level of the Creator and the Despiser. (And doesn't Infelice even discuss the immortality of her race in AATE?)

I just think that the Worm is more a part of the Earth, as opposed to a being that is "visiting" the Earth.
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Post by Orlion »

I don't view it as visiting either, I think that it is merely trapped in the earth like Foul and SHE. Each one would destroy the Arch if certain requirements were met, SHE(if she remembers who she is), the Worm (if he devours enough Earthpower), and Foul... if he could just get someone else to do it :P
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Post by shadowbinding shoe »

I wonder if the Worm is an allegory on some level to a black hole and the theory that the Big Bang came from a massive black hole exploding. If so it would not have a life beyond that of consuming unlike the Eternals with their defining emotional characteristic.

As for the claims the Elohim make about their (and the stars') superiority to the rest of creation you must remember that they are very biased on the subject. You shouldn't take their words at face value. The strongest support for your theory is their Timeless nature which is alluded to at various points in the story. Such a timeless nature indicates that they precede the Arch of Time like the Eternals.
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Post by Orlion »

Just to make another thing clear: I don't think the Elohim or current stars are what the myth are referring to. I think in the myth, the stars are 'Eternals', or 'gods'.
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Post by High Lord Tolkien »

"that in the ancient and eternal youth of the cosmos, long ere the Earth came to occupy its place, the stars were as thick as sand throughout all the heavens. Where now we see multitudes of bright beings were formerly multitudes of multitudes, so that the cosmos was an ocean of stars from shore to shore, and the great depth of their present solitude was unknown to them - a sorrow which they could not have comprehended. They were the living peoples of the heavens, as unlike to us as gods. Grand and warm in their bright loveliness, they danced to music of their own making and were content.
I'm reminded of the One Forest here.
It was beyond the Trees comprehension as well when they were being slaughtered like the stars.

Also the Wraiths and how they were slaughtered.

SRD keeps giving us these repeating themes.
Why can't we figure out the ending with all these clues???????


"But far away across the heavens lived a being of another kind. The Worm. For ages it slumbered in peace - but when it awakened, as it awakens at the dawn of each new eon, it was afflicted with a ravenous hunger.

I'm reading this now and noticed something.
This reads like the Worm had awakened repeatedly in past without a ravenous hunger.
"afflicted" seems to mean something new was done to the Worm or some new change happened.

Every creation contains destruction, as life contains death, and the Worm was destruction. Driven by its immense lust, it began to devour stars.

"Perhaps this Worm was not large among the stars, but its emptiness was large beyond measure, and it roamed the heavens, consuming whole seas of brightness, cutting great swaths of loneliness across the firmament. Writhing along the ages, avid and insatiable, it fed on all that lay within its reach, until the heavens became as sparsely peopled as a desert.

"Yet the devoured stars were beings as unlike to us as gods, and no Worm or doom could consume their power without cost. Having fed hugely, the Worm became listless and gravid. Though it could not sleep, for the eon's end of its slumber had not come, it felt a whelming desire for rest. Therefore it curled its tail about itself and sank into quiescence.
"gravid" means pregnant or distended with or full of eggs.
The Elohim are "children" or the Worm by their own admission.
They are not the stars.
BUT they are the digested star stuff that the Worm had consumed before. They and all Earthpower would be first on it's list to "reconsume"


I'm wondering if SRD is going to explain the Worm as sleeping on the Earth and when the Elohim "rose" or were "born" from within it that they spread out around the Earth and did all the creation that was mentioned in the end part of Pitchwifes story rather than it being in fact the Earth itself, which we know isn't the case now.
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Post by wayfriend »

I think "gravid" here merely means heavy. But I see your point, if you connect it to the Elohim being the "offspring" of the Würd. (Which I had never taken as literally as that.)

If the Worm is pregnant (talk about parthenogenesis!) then did it give birth by creating the World (as an excresence)? Or in producing the Elohim? Or has the Worm not delivered yet? Might it be about to?

I think a good question to ask is: did the Creator create the Worm? Was it created by him as his means of creating the Earth? Or did he kidnap the Worm, chloroform it, and put it to use.

Possibly this is abusing a metaphor. Which is, after all, what a myth is.
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Post by shadowbinding shoe »

The interesting thing about the Worm is that it takes part in a bigger history than the immediate one we know of. The stories talk about Ages in the plural form in which it wakes. All we know is that it waked prematurely during this particular age and gave birth the world of the Land by mistake.

What does it do during those ages' ends? It seems as though the Land's world was one long series of mistakes on all the possible levels from becoming a prison for Foul, a Lethe's well for Love, an imperfect mixture of beauties and hideous banes, a timeline full of holes and loops and paradoxes to the whole star tragedy.

What was really supposed to happen? Will we see it happen at the end of the last book?
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Post by High Lord Tolkien »

wayfriend wrote:I think "gravid" here merely means heavy. But I see your point, if you connect it to the Elohim being the "offspring" of the Würd. (Which I had never taken as literally as that.)

If the Worm is pregnant (talk about parthenogenesis!) then did it give birth by creating the World (as an excresence)? Or in producing the Elohim? Or has the Worm not delivered yet? Might it be about to?

I think a good question to ask is: did the Creator create the Worm? Was it created by him as his means of creating the Earth? Or did he kidnap the Worm, chloroform it, and put it to use.

Possibly this is abusing a metaphor. Which is, after all, what a myth is.
But we know now that the Worm is not the Earth, not even close in size. "a range of hills" it was described.
So the whole curling up and forming the Earth is false at this point.
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Post by SGuilfoyle1966 »

Also the Wraiths and how they were slaughtered.

SRD keeps giving us these repeating themes.
Why can't we figure out the ending with all these clues???????
Because we haven't seen the last of the wraiths. Nor the last of the trees. [/quote]
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Post by finn »

There seems to be a lot of pieces from many pantheons and of course many pantheons and their core legends overlap. Perhaps one of the most common overlaps is the snake (worm) and the tree with its obvious male/female symbolism.

Yggdrasil and Nidhogg and the Snake and the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden come to mind but the serpent/worm/dragon is also featured as a core force in the pantheons of the Greeks (Hydra) India and SE Asia (Naga) China (Dragon aka worm). Vasuki a king of the Nagas allowed himself to be used as a rope to churn the sea of milk and extract the ambrosia of immortality; water is another common fertility symbol like the tree.

The Hydra (water Serpent) was the offspring of Typhon and Echidna whose mother was Gaia the Earth Goddess. Nidhogg is the Norse Serpent that chews the roots of Yggdrasil the Tree of the World , the Norns (so similar to 'the fates' in Greece) weave fate at the trees foot; the first of the Norns is called Urour (meaning wyrd) but sometimes Urth (Earth?). Other female water spirits-like creatures are the merewives so similar to sirens in Greek legend (The Odyssey).

Many pantheons have 'naturals', earth spirits, nymphs, fawns, satyrs, elves, etc. such would be the Elohim, not gods but nonetheless with all the Gods' advantages like immortality and a few useful godly tricks.

I guess where I'm leading to is that the Pantheon of the Land is not so different in terms of its building bricks than many others, its the way these brick are assembled that sets each apart. However you can't but help see the similarities and common themes, the worm and tree being one example.

Some of the accompanying legends and prophecies speak of renewals often with a resultant Adam and Eve like survivor pair: something we've seen echoed with Hollian and Sunder and who knows, Covenant and Linden following a desecration?

I think the Land's pantheon will be a variant or composite and we've seen a bit of that already. If we want to try to guess the meanings of parts of the Pantheon, there are clues to be found in the similar (sometimes very similar) tales from various cultures.
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