BEER

[MsMary]

Guinness is a what I like to think of as a "gateway beer." Being ubiquitous, it is often the first non-yellow-fissy-pseudo-pilsner that most people try. And it has a little more taste than most marco-swill.

Guinness's Foreign Extra Stout is actually pretty good. It has been brewed around the world for years, but has become just recently available in the U.S. More roast, more hops, more alcohol. About 7% ABV, I believe.

I don't know about that. Guinness tasted pretty good when I had it on tap in a Dublin bar.

[Zarathustra]

Ms Mary, I didn't say anything bad about Guinness. What part did you find objectionable? I was trying to say that it's the first step into the world of "more taste" for many beer drinkers.

[MsMary]

I guess it may be. It wasn't for me. And I still like it.

[Cagliostro]

My favorite of the stouts was Watney's Cream Stout, which they don't export anymore, apparently. I haven't drank any in years, so my palate may have changed, but I definitely preferred it to Guinness at the time. However, at the time was before Guinness did draft cans/bottles here in the States.

So these days, as much as I try other things and like them for a while, I still keep coming back to Guinness. I really liked Dragon Stout, Old Peculier Ale, and Old Rasputin, but I do find Guinness easiest to find and frequently cheaper.
I've found I really like porters when I've had them at microbreweries, and will always pick one when it is an option, but I don't see many porters in bottles that do it for me. Anchor Porter is one that I used to see around, but it wasn't quite as good as Guinness to my palate, but would do in the places that didn't have Guinness (like the bar I used to frequent in college).
And if you want your wife/girlfriend to give a dark beer a try, try mixing it using the black & tan method with Lindemans Framboise. Hell, it's a nice treat for me when I make it too.

[Zarathustra]

I really liked ... Old Rasputin...

When I first started exploring the World of Better Beer, Rasputin (at 9% ABV) was too intense for me. I preferred Guinness and Young's Oatmeal Stout. But now I love Rasputin and recognize it as a one of the best values (bang for buck) of the Imperial Stouts. However, it's still a little too "roasty" for my taste (I suspect this is Black Patent Malt, which I don't use very much in my own brews for its intense "charcoal" taste). Stone's RIS is smoother and more chocolaty.

I've found I really like porters when I've had them at microbreweries, and will always pick one when it is an option, but I don't see many porters in bottles that do it for me. Anchor Porter is one that I used to see around, but it wasn't quite as good as Guinness to my palate, but would do in the places that didn't have Guinness (like the bar I used to frequent in college).

I love Anchor Porter. It's an American classic, brewed by one of the first "modern" craft brewers (1970s). But it's pretty hoppy, which some people don't like in their porters. I highly recommend Stone's Smoked Porter. The smoked malt is not overpowering, pretty subtle, and it's not very hoppy if that's your thing. Also, Founder's Porter is just about the epitome of the style, imo. Fuller's London Porter is another stellar brew. It's definitely got that "English" taste, which comes from the Fuller's yeast. It should be fairly easy to find, and well worth trying--another classic. Edmund Fitzgerald (brewed by Great Lakes) was mentioned earlier, which is another great American porter. And, as I've mentioned, Guinness Foreign Extra Stout is the best Guinness I've ever had. It comes in 4-pack bottles.

And if you want your wife/girlfriend to give a dark beer a try, try mixing it using the black & tan method with Lindemans Framboise. Hell, it's a nice treat for me when I make it too.

Lindemans Framboise is amazing! Most people won't even recognize it as beer. It's like liquid Jolly Rancher. Don't even get me started on lambics!

[Orlion]

Edmund Fitzgerald seems a lot... creamier? Than Guinness. Not a bad thing, definitely different.

I'm going to keep drinking the Burning Rivers until they are gone... that's the problem with sample packs in a single household... and my cat's too good for beer!

[Zarathustra]

Edmund Fitzgerald seems a lot... creamier? Than Guinness. Not a bad thing, definitely different.

Yeah, they're definitely different. Guinness is a dry stout, while E.F. is a porter. The drier the beer, fewer residual sugars remaining. This has an effect on the palate as well as the taste, making the beer "thinner" or giving lighter mouthfeel. Guinness is also lower in alcohol, which means that it started out with less malt to begin with, given the fact that it's drier than E.F. Porter. So it's going to have fewer unfermentables left over to give a fuller body. For instance, E.F. uses crystal malt, which isn't as fermentable as a base malt, giving a higher final gravity (i.e. more residual sugars).

This is what Ratebeer.com has to say about the two styles:

The "Irish-style" stout is typically a low-gravity stout with bitterness ranging between 30-45 IBUs. Roastiness is present, but restrained, and there should not be hops in either the flavour or aroma. A little bit of acidity can be present. Often, this type of stout is serving via nitrogen, with all the effects that has on a beer - low carbonation, extra-thick head, lifeless palate and muted flavour and aroma.

Black or chocolate malt gives the porter it’s dark brown color. Porters are well hopped and heavily malted. This is a medium-bodied beer. Porters can be sweet. Hoppiness can range from bitter to mild. Porters are often confused with stouts (and with good reason, but that’s for another day).

Note the "lifeless palate and muted flavor and aroma" as a consequence of serving via nitrogen. These are two VERY different beers.

[Orlion]

Huh. I never knew that porter and stout were two different kinds of beer.

Gave Burning River another go. It was better this time around, though I wish I drunk it with my spicy chili instead of the Edmund Fitzgerald. The Edmund Fitzgerald was not appropriate for the chili, but was still amazing on its own. I'm rounding the evening off currently with a Dortmunder Gold. It's hard to imagine I use to hate the stuff.

[psytech]

My brother, in the past few years, has frequented "The Flying Saucer" and has sampled many different brews. He recently knew of a rare tapping of Doghead Fish 120 IPA and invited me along. It's very hoppy and with a alcohol content of 15-20% is definitely a "sipper." The brewer claims that the bottle version can stand and be improved by cellaring of a year or so. I have to admit I haven't sampled even moderate number of brews but I found this brew interesting, very drinkable, and enjoyable.

[Vraith]

Some people just don't get it:

shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/799/coors-outscores-bud/

[sgt.null]

got that for the superbowl...

[Vader]

An ode to plain (porter).

"The Workmans Friend"

When things go wrong and will not come right,
Though you do the best you can,
When life looks black as the hour of night -
A pint of plain is your only man.

When money's tight and hard to get
And your horse has also ran,
When all you have is a heap of debt -
A pint of plain is your only man.

When health is bad and your heart feels strange,
And your face is pale and wan,
When doctors say you need a change,
A pint of plain is your only man.

When food is scarce and your larder bare
And no rashers grease your pan,
When hunger grows as your meals are rare -
A pint of plain is your only man.

In time of trouble and lousey strife,
You have still got a darlint plan
You still can turn to a brighter life -
A pint of plain is your only man.

-- Flann O'Brien (Brian O'Nolan)

[Orlion]

So the White House has released it's beer recipes that it makes for, presumably, Obama.

Seems like an awful lot of 'sweet' for a beer, but I don't think I've ever had a honey ale or porter before.

[Zarathustra]

Honey doesn't add any sweetness to a beer. It's extremely fermentable sugar (glucose, fructose). So it mostly turns to alcohol, along with the sugars from the malt.

The crystal malt in the recipe would add a touch of sweetness, but at 12 oz per 5 gallon batch, it's not a whole lot.

Honey in beers add honey aroma, which might contribute to the apparent perception of sweetness, since much of our perception of taste is contributed by smells, but they usually aren't sweet beers. In fact, it's a way to bring down the final gravity of very "large" beers so that they can be stronger without being sweeter. This is a brewer's trick for brewing stuff in in the 10% range.

[Orlion]

Thanks for the correction, Z.

Just got a pint of St Peter's Organic English Ale... and it is fantastic!

It's a delicate balance of citrus and barley tones with an excellent after taste. And at 4.50 % ABV, perfect for meals or when you do not want to quite be belligerent!

[Menolly]

Not sure if anyone here is willing to pay this price, but thought I would share in case y'all aren't already aware.

The 12th day of the 12th month of 2012 is not a day of deliverance but of delivery for devout American fans of Westvleteren 12, brewed by the reclusive Belgian monks at St. Sixtus Abbey.

The celebrated beer — often called the best in the world — is usually only available for sale at the abbey, located in the Belgian countryside. But starting Wednesday, buyers in the U.S. and other countries can purchase the beer at select retailers for $84.99 for six bottles.

Why this sudden blessing for beer lovers? The abbey happened to need an expensive renovation recently. But its 21 monks live an austere life — which means, among other things, that they purposely lack cash reserves. So the monks reluctantly made the decision to export small amounts of the precious nectar overseas for the first time.

And, says Mark Bode, the longtime spokesman for the Westvleteren Brewery, "I think it will be the last." Bode is one of very few people privy to the monks' views, as no visitors are allowed inside the abbey.

"They say, 'We are monks, we don't want to be too commercial. We needed some money to help us buy the new abbey and that's it,' " Bode explains. "Back to normal again."

At the abbey in western Belgium's countryside, "normal" entails a life entirely focused on prayer. The monks rise at 3 a.m. to start the first of seven prayer sessions per day. In between, they busy themselves in the kitchen and the garden, and with tasks like painting — and brewing.

The monks have brewed the same amount of beer every year since 1945 — about 3,800 U.S. barrels, just the amount needed to sustain the abbey. Sales of the beer are tightly controlled.

The resulting scarcity created demand on a regional scale, even before beer websites started an international craze by giving Westvleteren's beers a stellar taste rating.

In the brewery's cafe, beer connoisseur Andrew Stroehlein, who has blogged his way through an estimated 500 Belgian varieties, says he went through, well, hell and high water to get some Westvleteren.

"You call the number over a series of days, weeks, months and nobody answers," he says, recounting how he tried to contact the abbey's beer shop. "Then finally somebody does answer. They tell you when you can come; they tell you what beer you can buy; they tell you how much you're gonna pay. And if you don't like it, then God be with you."

Nevertheless, Stroehlein has eagerly made a second trip on this day to get a taste of the Trappist treat, more than two hours' drive from Brussels deep into Flemish pig-farm country, suitably hard to find at the end of a long, narrow street.

"It's the holy grail of so many beer connoisseurs," he says. "This is where they want to reach. This is it."

Sitting nearby in the brewery's cafe are two patrons who came by train from the Netherlands.

"Because of the whole story, it's worth traveling for ... it's a legend," says John Stienen.

"But even without the whole story, if you take your time and pay attention to it, then you notice the difference," says Theijs van Welij. "And you really think, this is really one of the few quality beers that you should have tried in your life."

Back in Brussels, Stroehlein delivers a bottle of Westvleteren to Christine Frazer, who has been anticipating this first sip for a long time.

"That's lovely," she says, after sampling the brew. She adds with a smile, "It's like a sweetie, like a bonbon. Oh, yes!"

When there is criticism of Westvleteren's taste, it tends to be that it's overly sweet.

Jean Hummler owns one of the most successful lambic pubs in Brussels. The acidic lambic beers require more complex brewing processes — and, Hummler suggests, more sophisticated palates — than Trappist ales such as Westvleteren.

"It doesn't contain any special malt, with a lot of candy sugar. As professionals, we consider Westvleteren as a heavy, dark sweet beer," he says. "It's easy to be famous and popular when you're working on the mild and sweet side."

That criticism wouldn't bother the modest monks at St. Sixtus. Bode says that while they're proud of their product, the hype makes it more difficult to live a life of silence and seclusion.

"They don't want the publicity. They don't need it," he says.

But, he is reminded, that kind of notoriety can come in handy when you need a new roof. "One time in a lifetime, yes," he says, with a laugh.

[Vraith]

I forgot about this thread!
That's a cool thing, there, Menolly.
So, my wife and I are new-ish to the area, went out to dinner last weekend at a place nearby, it was 1/2 price draft night, so I asked the waitress what they had on tap...she didn't stop talking for a couple minutes, at least 10 or 15 she mentioned I had never even heard of the company. [A couple standards like Guinness, a regional company called Schell's which is really not bad especially considering how cheap it is, they had of course...but mostly localish things.]
Huzzah!

I'll be going back there, I bet. Maybe I'll make occasional reports now that I've been reminded of this thread.

[StevieG]

I don't know if it is available elsewhere, but this beer from my home state is exceptional!

The description says "Roasted barley and rich malt character combine for a full bodied style" and "Notes of rich chocolate and coffee with balanced bitterness" - strangely enough I can taste the coffee/chocolate, which is impressive for me, as my perception of particular tastes in beer (and wine) is pretty limited. I mean, I can recognise a good beer/wine, but usually just can't pick up the specific flavour. Anyway, here it is!



I admit to partaking of one or two tonight

[Vraith]

Holy Crap!
I don't know if it's great beer...but I'd love to try that just for braggin rights.

[StevieG]

This is probably more an Aussie term I suppose, but I found it funny. This was on the label of a Moo Brew cup.