A Prosaic Confession

Book 3 of the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

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Zarathustra
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Post by Zarathustra »

ussusimiel wrote:Some of it may have to do with how many characters from our world are now involved in the world of the Land: Covenant, Linden, Hile Troy, Joan, Jeremiah, Roger. It's a regular crowd now and none of the later additions seem, to me, to be integral to the Land itself in the way that Covenant, Linden and Hile Troy were in the 1st and 2nd Chrons.
Damn good point that I've not heard anyone else make. I like it when other readers pinpoint something I've felt on some level myself without realizing it until it's pointed out to me. With all the people in the Land, it's like the Land has become some kind of group therapy session, family counseling. I can't decide if this expands the universality of the Land's truths, or if it just robs the world of what made it special. Donaldson seemed to have walked that tightrope convincingly (between special and universal) up until now.
ussusimiel wrote: Willy-nillyness is the ability to move from one place to another without effort, for me this removes a huge quest element from any fantasy novel. Think of how much pleasure we get in the two earlier Chrons from the long journeys and the fantastic voyages. Imagine just being able to zap into Elemesnedene and zip out again. No struggle, no effort and essentially nothing learned or gained. Ditto Gravin Threndor and Foul's Creche.
There are two ways to look at this. One could make the argument, as you do, that it's a narrative problem. Not only does it make the journeys seem ad hoc or too easy, it is also the plot device that allows room in the narrative for sitting around for the rest of the time. So it enables both a frenzied, unsatisfying, disconnected sense of travel, coupled with an infuriatingly large amount of time sitting around talking.

On the other hand, these very elements could be viewed in a positive light, a masterly show of contrasts that grates upon our readerly expectations ("Get on with it!" vs "Whoa, slow down!") for the very same reason that attacks upon time grate against Linden's senses. It's formication for the readers. It's allowing us to experience extremes as the Land itself is facing extremes. And it's doing it in a way that Donaldson hasn't attempted before. Not only is it a courageous choice as a writer, it's specifically tied to pacing, or a sense of time, which is the structure being attacked in this particular Chronicles. Just think for a moment of the scale of the achievement in simultaneously giving readers the impression of dizzying, frenzied travel in a book as painfully plodding as AATE.
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Post by Ananda »

I don't know. I'd say to take it for what it is. It's not like the previous series were these mind blowing, life altering stories either. They were enjoyable. These new ones are enjoyable, too.
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Post by Orlion »

Ananda wrote:I don't know. I'd say to take it for what it is. It's not like the previous series were these mind blowing, life altering stories either. They were enjoyable. These new ones are enjoyable, too.
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Post by RaverRats »

Some 20 odd years ago, I was fortunate enough to read the entire 1st and 2nd chronicles back to back. No waiting in between. And I knew the grand finale was waiting out there for me. So if TC paced around for an entire chapter resolving some conflict inside his head, it didn’t bother me so much. In fact I loved to struggle along with him and take a good internal flogging myself. Suffering along with TC or even Linden made the books seem more personified. Now, that I have to wait 2 years between copies, the style just doesn’t flow as well. After TLD comes out, I am sure I will “enjoy/suffer with” the grueling chapters in proper context. I really despise the break in tension between the novels, not the novels themselves.
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Post by ussusimiel »

Ananda wrote:I don't know. I'd say to take it for what it is. It's not like the previous series were these mind blowing, life altering stories either. They were enjoyable. These new ones are enjoyable, too.
I think Ananda is in wind-up mode today, but just in case here are a couple of threads that slightly contradict the above statement: It's just as well we're such a civilized bunch here or there would be a figurative lynching and literal flaming mob gathering as I speak :twisted:

u.

P.S. And I'm one of the ones who isn't that enamoured with the Last Chrons, imagine what the True Believers are like 8O
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Post by Orlion »

ussusimiel wrote:
P.S. And I'm one of the ones who isn't that enamoured with the Last Chrons, imagine what the True Believers are like 8O
We are silent... and deadly :evilfoul:
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Post by Ananda »

ussusimiel wrote:
Ananda wrote:I don't know. I'd say to take it for what it is. It's not like the previous series were these mind blowing, life altering stories either. They were enjoyable. These new ones are enjoyable, too.
I think Ananda is in wind-up mode today, but just in case here are a couple of threads that slightly contradict the above statement: It's just as well we're such a civilized bunch here or there would be a figurative lynching and literal flaming mob gathering as I speak :twisted:

u.

P.S. And I'm one of the ones who isn't that enamoured with the Last Chrons, imagine what the True Believers are like 8O
Hihi no, not just trying to wind people up. Just seemed to go a little far that some suggested maybe he shouldn't have written the new serial, don't you think? The old ones are entertaining. The new ones are too, but in a different way. The author is older, a different person now, so you get different books. And, yes, anything can be very important to anyone at various points in their lives. Could be these books, a doll collection, some tv serial, et cetra. It's not like I said I don't enjoy the books, but just that they are just fun stories, not a sacred thingie!

But, I think I want a bell tied to Orlion now! I'm scared. :D
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Post by Rigel »

Orlion wrote:
ussusimiel wrote:
P.S. And I'm one of the ones who isn't that enamoured with the Last Chrons, imagine what the True Believers are like 8O
We are silent... and deadly :evilfoul:
Around here that phrase is used to describe farts :biggrin:
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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

If the First Chronicles hadn't been a transcendent, haunting work of art, this site would not exist.
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Post by RantAbsolain »

I had a number of problems with this series. So little has actually happened in three hefty books. The Giants are indistinguishable and seem to share one half-drawn personality, as do the Haruchai. Roger is a cartoonish villain with no real motivation. A powerful race we've never heard of before is now an integral part of the world's history. The re-appearance and casual disposal of Elena's shade, the anti-climactic meeting of Covenant and his ex, the ridiculous appearance of the Creator's ex, and on and on.

But the one thing that must be said for Donaldson's previous two Covenant series is that they ended very well and in a satisfying way. The man knows how to wrap up a story, or at least he once did. I'm hopeful that he'll salvage the series to some extent in the last book.
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Post by Ananda »

Even if the insequent fell from the sky so to speak, I like them. If he wrote more books, I would like to read about them with no TC et al in tow.

And, Ron, your reasoning explains the Twilight forums. (I just assume there are some!) ;)
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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Ananda wrote:Even if the insequent fell from the sky so to speak, I like them. If he wrote more books, I would like to read about them with no TC et al in tow.

And, Ron, your reasoning explains the Twilight forums. (I just assume there are some!) ;)
I persist in my reasoning. Simply consider the date of publication of WGW and the length of time until this site was founded. I doubt they'll be writing odes to Twilight thirty years hence.

Which begs the question: why are you here?
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Post by Ananda »

Ron Burgunihilo wrote:Which begs the question: why are you here?
Isn't this a Twilight forum? Jenn is the Twilight fan club president, so I thought I was in the right place.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

RantAbsolain wrote:I had a number of problems with this series. So little has actually happened in three hefty books. The Giants are indistinguishable and seem to share one half-drawn personality, as do the Haruchai. Roger is a cartoonish villain with no real motivation. A powerful race we've never heard of before is now an integral part of the world's history. The re-appearance and casual disposal of Elena's shade, the anti-climactic meeting of Covenant and his ex, the ridiculous appearance of the Creator's ex, and on and on.

But the one thing that must be said for Donaldson's previous two Covenant series is that they ended very well and in a satisfying way. The man knows how to wrap up a story, or at least he once did. I'm hopeful that he'll salvage the series to some extent in the last book.
Good post!
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Post by Atrium »

This thread actually caused me to re-read, as i noticed i had forgotten so much about the plot. Re-reading is more pleasant. But the book strikes me as chatty. Much repetition and a lot of unnecesary text. I dont really see a strong editor at work here. Where there no one there to tell the author to kill his darlings?

But, re-reading lets me skip the dead meat and just go for the action/dynamic parts. I actually get the feeling that this could have been an enjoyable reading experience for me too, the first time around, if something like a third of the text material had been edited out. Less is definitely more, when it comes to writing.

Even though i stand by my earlier statement; im not all that happy with the general plot, i now feel a little curious to see how all the knots will tie together in The Last Dark. Maybe ill have to buy the book after all, damn! :)

I think what annoys me the most the second time around is the part where Liand gets killed. It seems so... unnecesary somehow? So sloppy. Was it really necessary to try the exorcism thing at the same time as 5 falls appeared at close range? To ignore Aneles plea for the sunstone? OK, they are all dropping like dead flies by now, but Liand somehow seemed destined for something a little better. Maybe he was the new character i had been able to connect most to.

I like how it ends. Linden and Jeremiah, and Covenant in the ruins of Fouls Creche. Maybe, maybe, this is where it starts to get really interesting!
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Post by Rigel »

Atrium wrote: I think what annoys me the most the second time around is the part where Liand gets killed. It seems so... unnecesary somehow? So sloppy. Was it really necessary to try the exorcism thing at the same time as 5 falls appeared at close range? To ignore Aneles plea for the sunstone? OK, they are all dropping like dead flies by now, but Liand somehow seemed destined for something a little better. Maybe he was the new character i had been able to connect most to.
To me it seemed like SRD suddenly said, "Crap I'm supposed to kill them off in this one!" and dashed off a page killing everyone.

Other than that (and the slow part where they're running away from the Bane), I enjoyed the book.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Yeah, that big action scene around those deaths didn't work well. I think SRD's pretty bad at action. And Liand looked like he was being set up for more than just helping Anele at the end.

But all the stuff in Mount Thunder was a lot like the later parts of Lord Foul's Bane, and I didn't have a problem with it.
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Post by ninjaboy »

I am liking the Last Chrons so far, but will not judge them until I have read them all, and then re-read them as part of the whole story..

While there have been things that have been an occasional challenge and sometimes a jump between what we thought was true and what is now known to be true, they have still been very enjoyable and engrossig books.

And every single one of them does improve on the re-read.
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Post by Landsakes »

I for one think the LC fits in perfect with the last two series. I think Donaldson has done a good job of keeping the style consistent considering the amount of time that has gone by since last he told a tale set in The Land. I wish he had found of way bringing Covenant back into the story sooner, though that is my own selfish desire. TC is the only thing that has been lacking in the LC and it was awesome to have him back in AATE. I can't wait to see how this all comes together, and just how tragic Donaldson is willing to go to wrap up the ultimate fantasy series.
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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

Update: now that the hardcover has come down to under $10, I'm about to pull the trigger. But I don't know if I'll read it until I have the last book in hand.
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