The Ardent
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- wayfriend
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Yes, at the battle of First Woodhelven, the Harrow had already promised not to attempt Linden's life or her possessions. So the ur-viles would not have attacked him to protect Linden. However, he had not yet agreed to help Linden - perhaps this was the significant difference. Or perhaps the answer lies in who the Harrow was attacking at that time.
As for the Ardent, in some obscure way which I am sure makes sense to other Indequent, he interfered with the Harrow's intentions. He explains it rather well, I think.
First, he "imposed" upon the Harrow by helping Linden bargain with him. This could have been interference, but it was to be balanced by aiding the Harrow once the bargain was made. The balance kept it from being the true interference which the Insequent do not tolerate.
"To lessen the peril, therefore, the geas was made twofold, first to impose the lady’s interpretation of his oath upon the Harrow, and thereafter to assist in the fruition of his designs. By such aid, the Insequent hoped to appease or counteract any violation of the most necessary stricture of our lives."
By failing to aid the Harrow, whether or not it was innocent or understandable, the balance was lost, and the imposition tilted into the red zone. It became interference.
"Lost among the entrancements of the Viles, and appalled by the horrors of the Lost Deep, I left the Harrow to confront his foes without my aid. Thus I permitted his death and the defeat of his designs. By timidity and weakness, I created true interference from the sophistry of imposition."
I am not sure that I follow this balancing act, but taking that as a given, the rest of it unfolds logically. Perhaps this "counteract" is based on some notion that, by providing aid, the Harrow would be as able to follow his intentions as well as if the Ardent had never interfered at all. That the "pros" of having the Ardent's help counteracted the "cons" of Linden having a better bargain.
Maybe this is just another way of saying, if the Ardent hadn't meddled in Linden's bargain with the Harrow, the Harrow would not have died. Linden would not have had any companions, and so she would not have been able to let Roger find them.
As for the Ardent, in some obscure way which I am sure makes sense to other Indequent, he interfered with the Harrow's intentions. He explains it rather well, I think.
First, he "imposed" upon the Harrow by helping Linden bargain with him. This could have been interference, but it was to be balanced by aiding the Harrow once the bargain was made. The balance kept it from being the true interference which the Insequent do not tolerate.
"To lessen the peril, therefore, the geas was made twofold, first to impose the lady’s interpretation of his oath upon the Harrow, and thereafter to assist in the fruition of his designs. By such aid, the Insequent hoped to appease or counteract any violation of the most necessary stricture of our lives."
By failing to aid the Harrow, whether or not it was innocent or understandable, the balance was lost, and the imposition tilted into the red zone. It became interference.
"Lost among the entrancements of the Viles, and appalled by the horrors of the Lost Deep, I left the Harrow to confront his foes without my aid. Thus I permitted his death and the defeat of his designs. By timidity and weakness, I created true interference from the sophistry of imposition."
I am not sure that I follow this balancing act, but taking that as a given, the rest of it unfolds logically. Perhaps this "counteract" is based on some notion that, by providing aid, the Harrow would be as able to follow his intentions as well as if the Ardent had never interfered at all. That the "pros" of having the Ardent's help counteracted the "cons" of Linden having a better bargain.
Maybe this is just another way of saying, if the Ardent hadn't meddled in Linden's bargain with the Harrow, the Harrow would not have died. Linden would not have had any companions, and so she would not have been able to let Roger find them.
.
- Iolanthe
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This has been nagging at me for some time:
Why was it so important that TC should remember the name of the Ardent's horse? I expected MM to turn up with the Ranyn when TC went off, but it was the Harrow's horse that they brought with them.Panting, the Ardent said hoarsely, "Timewarden".
Covenant moved closer. "Yes?"
Stretched thin with effort, the Ardent urged as clearly as he could, "Remembere Mishio Massima".
Covenant stared. "Is that your true name?"
Could he be invoked? Even when he was so close to collapse?
The dying man gave a cracked laugh. "It is my steed".
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
- Vraith
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Well I predict there is going to be a desperate need for speed, the Ardent knew the Harrow's horse would likely be dead already, and TC won't ride Rhan. of course. And considering the Ardent's passion for the unique, I suspect special attributes in his "steed." [though initially I kinda expected MM where you did, since it wasn't there's something even more important ahead...and TC is very fond of avoiding using stuff till absolute necessity drives him.]Iolanthe wrote:This has been nagging at me for some time:
Why was it so important that TC should remember the name of the Ardent's horse? I expected MM to turn up with the Ranyn when TC went off, but it was the Harrow's horse that they brought with them.Panting, the Ardent said hoarsely, "Timewarden".
Covenant moved closer. "Yes?"
Stretched thin with effort, the Ardent urged as clearly as he could, "Remembere Mishio Massima".
Covenant stared. "Is that your true name?"
Could he be invoked? Even when he was so close to collapse?
The dying man gave a cracked laugh. "It is my steed".
Heh...that seems obvious and completely unhelpful at the same time. "Why's he need the mounts name?"
"Cuz he's gonna need a mount."
"Well...duh, vraith...gonna need it for WHAT?"
"Hell if I know."
"Thanks for nothing."
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Vraith wrote:Heh...that seems obvious and completely unhelpful at the same time. "Why's he need the mounts name?"
"Cuz he's gonna need a mount."
"Well...duh, vraith...gonna need it for WHAT?"
"Hell if I know."
"Thanks for nothing."
Monsters, they eat
Your kind of meat
And they're moving as far as they can
And as fast as they can
Your kind of meat
And they're moving as far as they can
And as fast as they can
- Iolanthe
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No, that's OK Vraith. I tend to type as I think too, then I say stupid things - and that's not to say that what you said was stupid.
It seemed to me that the way that bit was written, the Ardent went to a lot of effort to give TC the name of his horse. Of course, now TC does need a horse. It hadn't occurred to me that the Ardent's horse might have special qualities. As to what he's going to need it for, I wouldn't expect anyone to know that, so you may well ask why did I put the question in the first place? It just seemed important, that's all.
It seemed to me that the way that bit was written, the Ardent went to a lot of effort to give TC the name of his horse. Of course, now TC does need a horse. It hadn't occurred to me that the Ardent's horse might have special qualities. As to what he's going to need it for, I wouldn't expect anyone to know that, so you may well ask why did I put the question in the first place? It just seemed important, that's all.
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
- wayfriend
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I think otherwise on this.
I think that the Ardent, who was literally cracking up at this point, merely wanted some kudos for his equine companion. Like he's saying, thank you, thank you, but I couldn't have done it without my donkey.
Maybe, just maybe, it was a hint for something a bit more important. He's telling Covenant to remember that even the smallest of one's friends, playing the least heroic of parts, can contribute a critical piece to any venture.
I think that the Ardent, who was literally cracking up at this point, merely wanted some kudos for his equine companion. Like he's saying, thank you, thank you, but I couldn't have done it without my donkey.
Maybe, just maybe, it was a hint for something a bit more important. He's telling Covenant to remember that even the smallest of one's friends, playing the least heroic of parts, can contribute a critical piece to any venture.
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- Vraith
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That would be kinda funny, and kinda in character for the Ardent...but I really thinkwayfriend wrote: I think that the Ardent, who was literally cracking up at this point, merely wanted some kudos for his equine companion. Like he's saying, thank you, thank you, but I couldn't have done it without my donkey.
HAH...dueling predictions! I believe that poor wreck of a mount will be vital.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
- shadowbinding shoe
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- Iolanthe
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Well, I did wonder why TC needed to know the horse's name, for the same reason. I still think that it's important though. We shall have to wait and see. Perhaps it had a glamour upon it and it was something else all the time
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
- shadowbinding shoe
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Maybe she will be like Balaam's donkey and saying her name will allow her to speak her mind.Iolanthe wrote:Well, I did wonder why TC needed to know the horse's name, for the same reason. I still think that it's important though. We shall have to wait and see. Perhaps it had a glamour upon it and it was something else all the time
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He told him the name of his horse in order for TC to return from confronting Joan. The Insequent's augury must have given glimpses of future events. In this case, success and refusal to ride Ranyhyn.
By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent. There is no need for compulsion ala the Harrow's.
By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent. There is no need for compulsion ala the Harrow's.
Old man how is it that you hear these things?
Young man how is it that you do not?
Master Po
Young man how is it that you do not?
Master Po
- Vraith
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Nope, I'd bet anything. Don't let the description fool you...MM is special...catching up to the rest of the group as Prover suggests may be the only task required, but that is vital, and no ordinary beast could arrive in time nor keep up with the Rhan on the ensuing ride. And they also have to outrun what I assume is the approaching Worm.shadowbinding shoe wrote: So maybe Wayfriend is right about this.
And I still don't see it in the Ardent's character to keep a perfectly ordinary [actually, less than ordinary IIR the description correctly] critter as mount/companion. Even if it wasn't standard so far for almost everything every Insequent possesses to be significant and symbolic of themselves.
But we'll see.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
- Iolanthe
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OK, but I can't recall TC having to know the name of the Harrow's horse, the Ranyhyn just brought him. There has to be some special reason why TC has to remember his name.Prover of Life wrote:He told him the name of his horse in order for TC to return from confronting Joan...........By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent. There is no need for compulsion ala the Harrow's.
It was the Ranyhyn themselves who compelled the Harrow's horse, with help from the little men with the green flames (can't remember their name), not TC.
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
- Frostheart Grueburn
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- Frostheart Grueburn
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Originally, yes, but the Lurker's neighbor Sårangravnäcken snacked on them for breakfast. He later died of acid poisoning while trying to sate his hunger with the other kind.Ananda wrote:It wasn't a tomte? Now I am confused.Zorm wrote:They were called the Feroce.Iolanthe wrote:with help from the little men with the green flames (can't remember their name), not TC.
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By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent.Iolanthe wrote:OK, but I can't recall TC having to know the name of the Harrow's horse, the Ranyhyn just brought him. There has to be some special reason why TC has to remember his name.Prover of Life wrote:He told him the name of his horse in order for TC to return from confronting Joan...........By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent. There is no need for compulsion ala the Harrow's.
It was the Ranyhyn themselves who compelled the Harrow's horse, with help from the little men with the green flames (can't remember their name), not TC.
Old man how is it that you hear these things?
Young man how is it that you do not?
Master Po
Young man how is it that you do not?
Master Po