Hile Troy was a master of abstraction, as was Covenant. Only two souls so linked could possibly come up with ideas of risk the existance of the land on the epheremal (Troy's Theoretics / Covenant's Unbelief).
Also the link between lepers and eyes and the soul.
Eyes are the windows to the soul. In non-canonical Christian 'mythology' (not sure what to call it) the forces of darkness remove the eyes of their sentries because the eyes are the window to the soul and they have no use for that. Soulless beings have no weakness that can be appealed to or exploited by compassion etc.
And lepers are only afflicted with that condition because they have commited such evil acts they they have forfeited their soul and now their appearance becomes changed to reflect the rankness of the inside.
A bit supersititious and whatnot, but it's nice to draw various points into what you read. I'm sure it means a lot more than this, if it means the above at all.
*MTSR*
Why eyelessness?
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[Syl]
- Unfettered One
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hmm, and one of the first things leprosy attacks is the cornea of the eye. interesting.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
Hile Troys eyelessness made him less believable as a military leader (or one with any connection to the military).
Troy was clearly ment to be a flawed figure, much like TC, but one willing to accept the land as he had no visable reality to compare it with, He did not have anything to counter the seduction of the creator/land/lords.
I always felt that lord foul had a hand in his apearance in the land, he was there to sway TC.
Troy was clearly ment to be a flawed figure, much like TC, but one willing to accept the land as he had no visable reality to compare it with, He did not have anything to counter the seduction of the creator/land/lords.
I always felt that lord foul had a hand in his apearance in the land, he was there to sway TC.
" a universe with no edge in space, no begining or end in time"
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[Syl]
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very astute, vt53. and welcome to the Watch.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
Everyone keeps going on and on about Hile Troy's eyelessness, but how come no one's mentioned the same condition in the Waynhim and Urviles?
"O let my name be in the Book of Love!
It be there, I care not of the other great book Above.
Strike it out! Or, write it in anew. But
Let my name be in the Book of Love!" --Omar Khayam
It be there, I care not of the other great book Above.
Strike it out! Or, write it in anew. But
Let my name be in the Book of Love!" --Omar Khayam
Perhaps the eylessness of the Ur-Viles/Waynhim is a reflection of their (and Covenant's) blind self-loathing?
SRD uses the word "roynish" to describe these creatures. This rather unusual word which means "scabby" or "mangy", is hardly representative of the smooth-skinned Viles. Was this word chosen because it is synonymous with the Greek origin of leprosy "lepros=scabby, scaly"? If the Viles ar mental images of a leper's disgust for his own body, they also represent two different aspects on how to deal with the problem.
The "inside explanation" of the Land is showing Covenant possible choices of how to handle his feelings and also hints to the outcome of these choices. The Ur-Viles' refusal to accept their condition leads only to destruction and evil. The Waynhim show him an alternative path. They are also essentially "lepers", only they have better answer to self-disgust. By accepting their appearance, as well as taking responsibility for the guilt of their forebearers, they find the power to give worth to their lives.
The concepts of Guilt, Acceptance and Power are essential elements in TCTC. To me, the white gold ring has always been a symbol of guilt. From this point of view, Troy's blindness can be compared to the choice of accepting responsibility without having the burden/power of Guilt.
SRD uses the word "roynish" to describe these creatures. This rather unusual word which means "scabby" or "mangy", is hardly representative of the smooth-skinned Viles. Was this word chosen because it is synonymous with the Greek origin of leprosy "lepros=scabby, scaly"? If the Viles ar mental images of a leper's disgust for his own body, they also represent two different aspects on how to deal with the problem.
The "inside explanation" of the Land is showing Covenant possible choices of how to handle his feelings and also hints to the outcome of these choices. The Ur-Viles' refusal to accept their condition leads only to destruction and evil. The Waynhim show him an alternative path. They are also essentially "lepers", only they have better answer to self-disgust. By accepting their appearance, as well as taking responsibility for the guilt of their forebearers, they find the power to give worth to their lives.
The concepts of Guilt, Acceptance and Power are essential elements in TCTC. To me, the white gold ring has always been a symbol of guilt. From this point of view, Troy's blindness can be compared to the choice of accepting responsibility without having the burden/power of Guilt.
"Innocence is a wonderful thing except for the fact that it is impotent. Guilt is power. All effective people are guilty because the use of power is guilt, and only guilty people can be effective. Effective for good, mind you. Only the damned can be saved."
No, when the fight begins within himself, A man's worth something - Robert Browning
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I always felt the eylessness of the Ur-Viles/Waynhim was a reflection of where they were created in the depths of the earth. they did not need eyes to fulfill their lives of service to lord foul, so he gave them none.
The parallel between their self loathing and TC's is apropriate. although both could have transfered this to their creator, they both chose to hate themselves.
The parallel between their self loathing and TC's is apropriate. although both could have transfered this to their creator, they both chose to hate themselves.
I was mostly exploring possible "inside explanations" or symbolic approaches to eyelessness. But in the direct sense or "outside explanation" I think you're right.
Creatures that live in the dark have less use for eyes than others. In that respect Ur-Viles seem to resemble moles. Animals living in caves or dark environments like the deep sea tend to either be blind or having very large light-reflecting eyes (perhaps Cavewights are such).
Viles seem to compensate their lack of vision with a keen sense of smell. Smell is the oldest sensory function, and even primitive one-cell organisms can orient themselves in their chemical environment with very primitive receptors. I read that of our 30 000 genes, about 1000 are connected to smell (although 70 % of these are dormant or dysfunctional in humans).
Still, smell doesn't enable you to make out shapes and I don't see how smell alone could suffice for the perceptive needs of intelligent creatures. Perhaps they have some sort of radar sense, like bats or dolphins? A dolphin can recognize and identify the shape of a 3D-object hidden inside a box under water, so an advanced ultrasound sense system could well function as well, or even better than sight, especially so in confined spaces such as caves.
Sand gorgons are also eyeless. Come to think of it, they are described as not having any kind of visible sensory organ at all (except for some sort of slits or gills). I have no idea how they perceive the world around them, other than that they seem to be telepathic.
As far as I understand, Foul did not create the Ur-viles. They were made by the self-loathing Viles. Of course, they served Foul in exchange for his help and advice on their breeding, so in that way he was involved in their making. The Viles must have been very "vile" indeed to consider Ur-viles an aestetic improvement.
Creatures that live in the dark have less use for eyes than others. In that respect Ur-Viles seem to resemble moles. Animals living in caves or dark environments like the deep sea tend to either be blind or having very large light-reflecting eyes (perhaps Cavewights are such).
Viles seem to compensate their lack of vision with a keen sense of smell. Smell is the oldest sensory function, and even primitive one-cell organisms can orient themselves in their chemical environment with very primitive receptors. I read that of our 30 000 genes, about 1000 are connected to smell (although 70 % of these are dormant or dysfunctional in humans).
Still, smell doesn't enable you to make out shapes and I don't see how smell alone could suffice for the perceptive needs of intelligent creatures. Perhaps they have some sort of radar sense, like bats or dolphins? A dolphin can recognize and identify the shape of a 3D-object hidden inside a box under water, so an advanced ultrasound sense system could well function as well, or even better than sight, especially so in confined spaces such as caves.
Sand gorgons are also eyeless. Come to think of it, they are described as not having any kind of visible sensory organ at all (except for some sort of slits or gills). I have no idea how they perceive the world around them, other than that they seem to be telepathic.
As far as I understand, Foul did not create the Ur-viles. They were made by the self-loathing Viles. Of course, they served Foul in exchange for his help and advice on their breeding, so in that way he was involved in their making. The Viles must have been very "vile" indeed to consider Ur-viles an aestetic improvement.
No, when the fight begins within himself, A man's worth something - Robert Browning
Didn't Nom only begin to speak in the "manor of the hurachi" after he fought the na-mhoram? In Nom's his fight with TC he had to be subdued like a beast by the wild magic, a force he could not overcome.Sand gorgons are also eyeless. Come to think of it, they are described as not having any kind of visible sensory organ at all (except for some sort of slits or gills). I have no idea how they perceive the world around them, other than that they seem to be telepathic.
I do not remember any explanation as to how Nom found his way in the world, they are creatures of the dunes perhaps they only need to feel the sand, and taste the smells on the wind.
" a universe with no edge in space, no begining or end in time"