Who Watches the Watchers?
- peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11598
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
- Been thanked: 6 times
Who Watches the Watchers?
I'm going to sound really naive here - but do people use more than one identity here on the Watch. I've been a member for a few years now and always taken it on good faith that each time I read a post by a particular poster whose 'name' I recognise or enter into a dialogue with them, that I am communicating with an individual who has 'reality' beyond the screen that sepparates us. But sometimes I wonder. Take 'Babybottomfeeder' for example. He always seemed to want to mess with people for some reason - albeit sometimes in a *very* clever way; but i began to ask myself is this guy for real or is it just another Watcher f****** with us. Do people do that? How can I know the people I am corresponding with are for real - come to that how can you know *I* am too! If this stuff goes on what forn does it take. How should I recognise it. I like corresponding with real people, not facsimile's thereoff.
Here's another clue that I probably am for real - I realise now (on a different topic altogether) that it is possible to 'spoiler' your own posts if you think they contain....er....well, spoilers. For the last five years every time those black lines appeared I thought that somewhere a 'mod' had decided "Oy! This gives away the plot of a book that may not have been read by other users. I'm spoilering it out!" I never realised a poster could do this themselves. How do you do it (he said, instantly seeing the 'spoiler' button at the right hand end of the buttons, none of which he has shit idea of what they do exept the italic button). Use the spoiler button I guess
Here's another clue that I probably am for real - I realise now (on a different topic altogether) that it is possible to 'spoiler' your own posts if you think they contain....er....well, spoilers. For the last five years every time those black lines appeared I thought that somewhere a 'mod' had decided "Oy! This gives away the plot of a book that may not have been read by other users. I'm spoilering it out!" I never realised a poster could do this themselves. How do you do it (he said, instantly seeing the 'spoiler' button at the right hand end of the buttons, none of which he has shit idea of what they do exept the italic button). Use the spoiler button I guess
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
You seem to have worked out the last part ("spoiler" and "/spoiler" in square brackets on each side of the text, btw).
As for identities... yes, some people use more than one account. No, you can never be entirely sure people are who they say they are. There aren't all that many alts around here, though, and they're generally not used with ill intentions. Most are used for the role playing games in the Gravin Threndor forums, or just for fun (like Sandgorgon Nom, Fangthane the Render, Dread Poet Jethro, Plains of Ra).
There have been some discussions about it in the General Discussion forum lately.
As for identities... yes, some people use more than one account. No, you can never be entirely sure people are who they say they are. There aren't all that many alts around here, though, and they're generally not used with ill intentions. Most are used for the role playing games in the Gravin Threndor forums, or just for fun (like Sandgorgon Nom, Fangthane the Render, Dread Poet Jethro, Plains of Ra).
There have been some discussions about it in the General Discussion forum lately.
- peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11598
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
- Been thanked: 6 times
Dread Poet Jethro! Wow - your man is a mean haiku poet and just someone I thought had the eccentricity of always wanting to post in them. I hate to say it but 'thus does the glory of the world become less than it was'.
Are we allowed to know who Dread Poet Jethro masquarades as (I think I prefer to keep DPT as the main persona) when in the form of his alter ego?
Are we allowed to know who Dread Poet Jethro masquarades as (I think I prefer to keep DPT as the main persona) when in the form of his alter ego?
The truth is a Lion and does not need protection. Once free it will look after itself.
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
- I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
- aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
- Posts: 17865
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:50 pm
- Location: NOT opening up a restaurant in Santa Fe
I know who it is, but unfortunately my lips are sealed... (Hint: it ain't me!)
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
- Vraith
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 10621
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: everywhere, all the time
I'm watching you watching him watching me
watching
Stares.
He's watching me watching you watching him
watching me.
He's watching me watching you watching
the trains go by.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
- Menolly
- A Lowly Harper
- Posts: 24086
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 12:29 am
- Location: Harper Hall, Fort Hold, Northern Continent, Pern...
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 8 times
- Contact:
ayeup.aliantha wrote:I know who it is, but unfortunately my lips are sealed... (Hint: it ain't me!)
Although there is a thread where dAN (another Watcher with countless alts) publicly outed DPJ, once he finally figured it out. I think DPJ will confirm I was the first to ask his main user within a few days of DPJ posting on the Watch for the first time if s/he was also DPJ...
...but then, I enjoy that sort of thing when I can figure it out.
- Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 2943
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 12:45 pm
- Location: Deep in psychotic, warped and weird thoughts
We dopeter wrote:I'm going to sound really naive here - but do people use more than one identity here on the Watch.
Well, how does posting as an alt make a person less real? As for trying to hide wrongdoings, attempting to pass as some other person, tricking people to cause harm and the like - it's not like people can't do it without any alts. And if a person actually seriously wants to do that and hide, that person may likely end up in the last rows as a suspect for having alts.peter wrote:...
I've been a member for a few years now and always taken it on good faith that each time I read a post by a particular poster whose 'name' I recognise or enter into a dialogue with them, that I am communicating with an individual who has 'reality' beyond the screen that sepparates us. But sometimes I wonder.
[...]
Do people do that? How can I know the people I am corresponding with are for real - come to that how can you know *I* am too! If this stuff goes on what forn does it take. How should I recognise it. I like corresponding with real people, not facsimile's thereoff.
...
Since you raised the question, I'll state my opinion, please keep in mind I'd like not to dwell on this topic much. For real? On that I can't tell for sure. Can well be a real person, and a not bad one at that, creative people sometimes do things much more unusual. Or not - just playing real can look pretty much the same, hints usually show up, but often may be seeming, and got to look for them, which I'm not really eager to do. Like the thing that really caught my attention is the name he mentioned as his real one, but names happen to be most various, can easily be a coincidence. Or may differ from the "real life him" because it's on the Watch where the actually real him shows up. I don't have sufficient info to tell on this, so I withhold judgement.peter wrote:...
Take 'Babybottomfeeder' for example. He always seemed to want to mess with people for some reason - albeit sometimes in a *very* clever way; but i began to ask myself is this guy for real or is it just another Watcher f****** with us.
...
But I think it's very unlikely that he's any of the Watchers I know - he did things hardly possible to connect to what fits any people I know on the Watch. Messing in a clever way doesn't require being a Watcher. Could be a lurker and know not less.
Nothing to really worry about, there are different levels of acquaintance with all this, well, those who know these things likely won't make a thing out of a most simple calculation that requires some knowledge of economics, or something else different from a few preferred fields) And here, on a forum, there's not much more required then the ability to make posts, other things can be interesting, but can be not used easily.peter wrote:...
Here's another clue that I probably am for real - I realise now (on a different topic altogether) that it is possible to 'spoiler' your own posts if you think they contain....er....well, spoilers.
...
Like that you can colorize the text in various shades.
Well, I think it becomes more. It's all the more awesome this way, that he can succeed at being like two different internet people, with both of them being interesting and wonderful to know in different ways)peter wrote:...
I hate to say it but 'thus does the glory of the world become less than it was'.
...
Murrin, thanks
Iolanthe, that's the spirit!)
aliantha, what a hint
Vraith, a good one
Menolly, glad to see this)
- Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 23708
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 33 times
I saw Esau sawing wood.
Though Esau saw I saw him saw,
Esau went on sawing.
For those who don't know, I'm not actually Fist and Faith. That's just my username here at the Watch. I'm not really several other usernames, either.
Though Esau saw I saw him saw,
Esau went on sawing.
For those who don't know, I'm not actually Fist and Faith. That's just my username here at the Watch. I'm not really several other usernames, either.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
- Iolanthe
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 3359
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:58 pm
- Location: Lincolnshire, England
- Contact:
Ha ha!
I saw Esau, sitting on a see-saw,
I saw Esau, he saw me.
I saw Esau, sitting on a see-saw,
I saw Esau, he saw me.
I saw Esau, he saw me, and she saw I saw Esau.
How many "S"s in that?
I saw Esau, sitting on a see-saw,
I saw Esau, he saw me.
I saw Esau, sitting on a see-saw,
I saw Esau, he saw me.
I saw Esau, he saw me, and she saw I saw Esau.
How many "S"s in that?
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
- Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 23708
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 33 times
- ussusimiel
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 5346
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 12:34 am
- Location: Waterford (milking cows), and sometimes still Dublin, Ireland
Re: Who Watches the Watcher's?
There's been quite a bit of discussion about this recently on the Watch and quite a range of opinions on it as well. It raises many interesting questions, not only about the nature of the Watch but also about the nature of the Internet itself. This in turn brings up the nature of things like identity and also language. (All very post-modern )peter wrote:I'm going to sound really naive here - but do people use more than one identity here on the Watch. I've been a member for a few years now and always taken it on good faith that each time I read a post by a particular poster whose 'name' I recognise or enter into a dialogue with them, that I am communicating with an individual who has 'reality' beyond the screen that sepparates us. But sometimes I wonder. Take 'Babybottomfeeder' for example. He always seemed to want to mess with people for some reason - albeit sometimes in a *very* clever way; but i began to ask myself is this guy for real or is it just another Watcher f****** with us. Do people do that? How can I know the people I am corresponding with are for real - come to that how can you know *I* am too! If this stuff goes on what forn does it take. How should I recognise it. I like corresponding with real people, not facsimile's thereoff.
I have been reading Marshall McLuhan's Understanding Media recently (I bought the book 10 years ago ) and some of the things he says are striking. He talks about each medium bringing its own changes to the societies that use it. For instance he names the printed word as one of the great influencers of modern society and he names the 'electric media' (Radio, Film, Television and the Internet) as the next great change.
One of the points he makes is that each medium brings with it certain ways of seeing the world. With print one of these is what he calls 'a point of view'. People who are used to the written word expect everyone to have a single point of view. Now this is where electric media are different. In electric media we can see many points of view at almost the same time, (e.g. split-screen).
One of the effects of electric media is that the multiple nature of identity becomes possible to express. It's not that the electric media have created this multiplicity, it's that it was always there but largely hidden. The Internet is probably the easiest place for people to engage in this multiplicity. That, in a sense, is the 'reality' of the Internet. One of the things that a 'troll' does is highlight that 'reality'.
In a way, the Watch is almost like a preserve. It is a largely troll-free open forum, which, I would guess, makes it an exception on the Internet. I think that the reason the Watch is troll-free is because the mods, as a group, are very Internet savvy. They allow enough flexibility in their moderating policy that people feel able to express themselves freely (witness the amount of thread drift there is in general on the Watch). Permitting alts is one form of this freedom. One possible consequence of this is that that the niche for trolls is quite narrow and anyone who joins to solely to be disruptive will be quickly outed.
Personally, I am more comfortable with single identities, but I am also aware that the identity that represents me on the Watch is, at best, a persona. My preference for a single persona probably relates to my age more than anything else. I am still a 'point of view' person. However, the more time I have spent on the 'Net the more aware I have become of its nature.
So, for example, the persona of 'ussusimiel' is probably closer to some idealised aspects of myself than my 'true' self. My posts (hopefully) read relatively smoothly and free-flowing because they are heavily edited and rewritten rather than spontaneous (akin to Yeats's, 'stitching and unstitching' or more likely, Frankenstein's ). Also when I post I have access to Google and Wiki which means that I can easily present myself as more knowledgeable than I may actually be
'ussusimiel' is by his very nature a product of the Internet. Less a reflection or echo of my 'true' self and more an exaggeration and idealisation of certain aspects of it. If I were to create an alternate identity on the Watch I might choose to represent and highlight other aspects of myself (like the excellent DPJ maybe ).
u.
Tho' all the maps of blood and flesh
Are posted on the door,
There's no one who has told us yet
What Boogie Street is for.
Are posted on the door,
There's no one who has told us yet
What Boogie Street is for.
- sgt.null
- Jack of Odd Trades, Master of Fun
- Posts: 47251
- Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:53 am
- Location: Brazoria, Texas
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 6 times
great points ussusimiel. i believe that people originally had problems with me because they thought i was being false in representing who i was. the excessive Mallorys postings were seen more as an affect i use using. when in fact that sort of overposting is simply who i am.
when i opened up to people here they could see that this is who i really am.
when i opened up to people here they could see that this is who i really am.
Lenin, Marx
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
Marx, Lennon
Good Dog...
- StevieG
- Andelanian
- Posts: 5933
- Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:47 pm
- Location: Australia
- Has thanked: 12 times
- Been thanked: 15 times
Great post ussuss!
Generally I'm happier conversing with a single identity, but I don't have a problem if an alt is in context - Onos T'oolan (Fist and Faith) in the Malazan thread, DPJ - a nice theme! Don Juan etc
The recent events haven't been so pleasant, but they are the minority I believe.
PS. I guessed DPJ's identity almost instantly as we started posting around the same time, and can reveal that she/he is
Generally I'm happier conversing with a single identity, but I don't have a problem if an alt is in context - Onos T'oolan (Fist and Faith) in the Malazan thread, DPJ - a nice theme! Don Juan etc
The recent events haven't been so pleasant, but they are the minority I believe.
PS. I guessed DPJ's identity almost instantly as we started posting around the same time, and can reveal that she/he is
Spoiler
someone on the watch
Hugs and sh!t ~ lucimay
I think you're right ~ TheFallen
I think you're right ~ TheFallen
- aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
- Posts: 17865
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:50 pm
- Location: NOT opening up a restaurant in Santa Fe
u., that is an awesome post! In fact, it's *so* great that my aliantha persona is sorely tempted to propose marriage to your u. persona.
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
- Iolanthe
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 3359
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:58 pm
- Location: Lincolnshire, England
- Contact:
I agree, ussusimiel. that was a brilliant post; I missed it for some reason earlier on and went back when I saw the other comments. Now I have to think about what or who Iolanthe is
I am playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order!
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."
"I must state plainly, Linden, that you have become wondrous in my sight."