The DNC (Democratic National Convention)

[Cail]

Both major parties have now demonstrated for the world to see that they are not committed to representative democracy. The Republicans improperly take away delegate votes with a decision whose result was posted to the teleprompter before the speaker said the words--the decision had already been made. The Democrats vote until the decision is arbitrarily judged to mirror what was already changed--the decision had already been made.

I ask again: when are we going to turn our backs on these two disasters?

I done did it.

[Vraith]

Voice votes like that are dumb, unless you know for sure, in advance, there's a 5 or 10 to 1 advantage one of the sides.

On to the speeches....
Maybe I'm just too hard on speakers overall...
I think, on a speaker-to-speaker comparison, the Dem's are a step up from their Rep counterparts on the rhetoric [the good definiton, effective delivery/communication]...but none of them for either party have been as overwhelmingly powerful/transcendent as the media/commentators have been saying.
I do think the Dem's have an advantage on specificity...a small one...and Bill Clinton's was the best speech so far...but not the best of all time like a fair number are saying...I expect it will move the persuadables a little, which may be all that's needed in this election...but one of the CONSERVATIVE folk from CNN...I can never remember the guys name...said basically that Bill just guaranteed an Obama win...that seems a major overstatement to me.

[Zarathustra]

Hashi, in the video I posted, one woman said that she would support Obama no matter what he did. That's the problem, right there. People like that. There are way too many of them.

[Edit: V, I'm not sure the speeches are important at all. One of the best speeches I've seen was Obama's 2004 DNC speech. Look where that led us.]

[[Syl]]

Both major parties have now demonstrated for the world to see that they are not committed to representative democracy. The Republicans improperly take away delegate votes with a decision whose result was posted to the teleprompter before the speaker said the words--the decision had already been made. The Democrats vote until the decision is arbitrarily judged to mirror what was already changed--the decision had already been made.

I ask again: when are we going to turn our backs on these two disasters?

I done did it.

Same. Registered with the Green Party the other day more as a protest against the Democratic Party than alignment with the Green platform (Libertarian would've been a closer fit, but that wasn't the point). That said, I'll probably still vote Democratic, but I haven't completely made up my mind yet.

[Vraith]

[Edit: V, I'm not sure the speeches are important at all.

Hmmm...I'd say that depends...in the sense of "if it changes something it was important."
OTOH [though not exactly a disagreement]: It damn well SHOULD matter. The words that come out of their mouths should be true, they should mean it, and they should act in accordance with them. They, and the listeners, should honestly distinguish Ideology, Preference, and Fact. They should acknowledge and live with it when an ideological position is untenable, a preference impractical, and a fact demonstrable. And...

[no, I won't rant or rave...or go further off-topic...though I sure feel like it. at myself]

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Hashi, in the video I posted, one woman said that she would support Obama no matter what he did. That's the problem, right there. People like that. There are way too many of them.

Although I can watch videos here at work, I normally choose not to; I'll have to watch it at home. Nevertheless, blind devotion to a politician is no different than blind devotion to a cult leader. I may vote for a third party, but that woman's vote is truly irresponsible and worthless.

Cail...Syl Embattled...I applaud you both for seeing through the False Dichotomy.

The conventions are big parties featuring people preaching to the choir--no one changes their mind at the convention, unless their particular candidate doesn't get the nomination.

[Prebe]

Just out of curiosity: isn't the midterms what REALLY counts? That is the election for the legislative power, if I understand correctly? And that's the election with about a 50% voter turnout innit?

Edit: Zar: Correct. An attitude like that makes you think, that democracy sucks. And that the lady in question should be immediately stripped of her right to vote.

[Zarathustra]

There's at least a partial Congressional vote of some kind every 2 years for the Senate, and the entire House is up every two years. So we'll be casting votes for the legislature this time, too. So this vote does count. And yes, the Presidential vote counts quite a bit. Veto power is the ultimate trump card on any legislation.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The House gets completely reelected every 2 years so those elections are always important. Of course, one-third of the Senate gets reelected every 2 years, as well, so yes--the Legislative elections account for 67% of all Members of Congress (100% of the House, 33% of the Senate).

The Executive, although highly visible, isn't quite as important as the Legislative elections.

[Vraith]

The Executive, although highly visible, isn't quite as important as the Legislative elections.

And yet pretty much always gets much higher turnout [as I think Prebe was pointing at]. Though, as Z said, Veto is a really big gun...votes to override are hard to come by.

[Cybrweez]

Picking SC justices is a pretty big deal too.

[Cybrweez]

A "fact check" on Clinton's speech. (I'm not too into the fact check craze, b/c then you have to fact check the fact checkers, unless they are very clear).

But it did mention his claim:

I experienced the same thing in 1994 and early 1995. Our policies were working but most people didn’t feel it yet. By 1996, the economy was roaring, halfway through the longest peacetime expansion in American history.

Does a good job pointing out the trouble signs even before he left, and the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Doesn't even talk about the surplus, which you could throw on that heap. But, that's a great politician right? B/c people remember him as spearheading a great economy. That of course left us w/this mess. Oh! I mean, that Bush then messed up...

The last bit was funny, about how the pubs mislead, and bringing up his Lewinsky days.

[Vraith]

Picking SC justices is a pretty big deal too.

Point.