The Hobbit

Post by **Cagliostro** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:21 pm

I saw it yesterday twice. The first time with 48 FPS 3-D and on an IMAX screen, and the second time with 24 FPS normal size screen and 3-D.

I was so distracted at the beginning of the movie with the new frame rate that I missed a heap and the dialogue was lost occasionally because I think the sound in the first theater wasn't as good as in the second.

I can't tell if it was the fault of the frame rate or the IMAX screen, but I had trouble seeing everything with the first viewing. But I feel that overall, it was the superior experience. The "old 70's soap opera" feel to the increased frame rate was a little hard to get used to at first, but was interesting for a fantasy feel to feel more "real," and I really felt like I was a lot more in the action that usual. The scenes were it all really popped was when they were outside. I remember some of the first few forest scenes made me feel like I was really there, and the rocks and so forth looked so clear, I really felt I was in New Zealand. The second time I saw it looked much flatter in comparison. And speaking of flatter, the 3D effect was much more effective with the new frame rate as well.

When the movie started with the normal frame rate, it definitely felt more comfortable, and my friend that I saw this with said he was liking the old frame rate better, and I said that it definitely was more familiar and comfortable. I have to say that I like the new format better in many ways, and once it becomes more comfortable to the eye, I think it is going to be something special. But right off the bat, it is not an obvious, comfortable new technology, such as, say, the upgrade from DVD to Blu-Ray was. It takes a while for the mind to adjust seeing the clarity. But in the places where it brings things alive, you will be happy you saw it in this format.

I'll be back in a bit to give my review of the movie itself.

Post by **Cagliostro** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:27 pm

Sorry for the double post. I suppose I feel about the movie and such the same way I felt about every LOTR movies up until now - grumpy about a few changes, but overall very pleased and had a great deal of fun. Great Gandalf speeches again, and Jackson and associates enhanced several things from the book. Here are the specifics, and very spoilerific:

Stuff that I didn't really like:

Spoiler

Azog the Defiler. I was very excited he was going to be in the movie, as it was a scene in one of the Tolkien books that made me realize the Dwarves in The Hobbit were not just greedy bastards. But making him the Lurtz of the movie kinda spoiled it for me. Why does Peter Jackson feel the need to have some growly bully in these movies?

Ol' Scrotum Chin - AKA the Great Goblin. Silly buffoon of a Goblin King. It also crapped up what might have been a better scene. I was expecting more of a growly bully there, and it would have been more fitting. But oh well.

A lot less Bilbo centric than I would have expected. But they are trying too hard to make it an ensemble piece.

Bilbo rushing out to defend Thorin at the end. It seemed a bit early in his development for this scene. I get why they did it, but...I dunno. Just seemed a bit wrong.

The dwarves were a lot braver than they ever seemed to me in the books.

Several dropped lines from the book, particularly the last riddle Gollum told. Why not include the final two lines of the riddle? Sure, we got the gist, but still. And furthermore, Bilbo not accidentally solving that riddle by saying to give him more time.

Most of these are minor quibbles though.

Now for what I liked:

Spoiler

The change that Bilbo leaves the dwarves and falls down to Gollum's cave before meeting the Goblin King. The timing in the book never made much sense; the dwarves waiting around for him for a while as he deals with Gollum. This way, they have their separate adventures and meet up at the same time. And with as much as they enhanced the goblin caves scenes, it really made a lot of sense this way.

The Gollumn scene - VERY moving. I welled up.

Radagast the Brown - loved him. Especially the bird crap on the side of his head. He was a tad silly, but I enjoyed the scenes with him, and especially the bunny sled.

The stone giants scene on the mountain - I have a deep rooted fear of those mountain passes as is, and having them moving and crumbling gave me serious heebie jeebies.

Interesting interplay between Gandalf and Saruman. The facial expression when Gandalf first hears he is there in Rivendell.

The (re-)introduction of Rivendell. Absolutely gorgeous, especially with the higher frame rate. I wish the first time we came across Rivendell in Lord of the Rings was like this. But for future generations who will probably watch The Hobbit first, it will be perfect.

How they did the scene with Bilbo with the Ring around Gollum. While it was silly that it was another accident to mirror the Frodo in Bree scene, that they had the same effect instead of just having Bilbo disappear like I was expecting make that link to the further movies and made it a bit more disconcerting than anything you would have expected from the book.

The smoke ring encircling the subtitle of this part of the Hobbit trilogy of movies. Just remindin' ya - it's linked with Lord of the Rings. Well done.

Other little nods to the other movies in the series. It never became obnoxious like the Star Wars prequels.

The creepiness of the Dol Guldur scene. I hope this part of the storyline pans out for the best.

So, yeah, pretty much what I was expecting - bits would displease me, but overall a fun ride with an epic feel.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:11 pm

I thought it captured the spirit and feel of the book almost completely.

Although not in the book, it is good that Radagast has finally been promoted to "actual character". Some people might be put-off by his very chaotic personality but remember that he hasn't lived around people in, well, a really long time.

Gandalf's reaction to Saruman is, in my opinion, one of "oh, crap--I'm in for another one of his lectures again". Gandalf could have saved everyone some trouble since he had already been to Dol Guldur, which is where he obtained Train's Key.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:44 pm

So, we're on a fantasy site which has a forum for movie discussions, and the biggest fantasy movie of the decade has just been released last week to record box office numbers, and only three people here have seen it? Or cared enough to chime in? Odd.

Post by **lucimay** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:01 pm

Zarathustra wrote:So, we're on a fantasy site which has a forum for movie discussions, and the biggest fantasy movie of the decade has just been released last week to record box office numbers, and only three people here have seen it? Or cared enough to chime in? Odd.

yeah i've been packing my belongings all week for the move so haven't had any time to see it and also am waiting for my friend webmonkey to go with me.

i will probably see it either this weekend or next. till then i'm going to read this whole thread, spoilers and all!!

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:32 pm

*I've never been able to get through any of JRRT's books. IMO, they can't hold a candle to TCoTC. Having said that, I did like the LOTR movies.

I've seen The Hobbit. To me, it was every bit as slow and boring as some of the reviews have suggested. I actually fell asleep when they FINALLY got to Rivendell, so I have no idea what happened there.

The ONLY scene I liked was Bilbo/Gollum. Andy Serkis is a genius!

Post by **ItisWritten** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:12 am

I saw it Tuesday, IMax, 48 3D. Yeah, the inside scenes reminded me of those old soaps. Outside was less distracting. Most of the movie I wasn't even thinking about it. I'll be seeing it again this weekend. My son doesn't like 3-D.

Spoiler

The scrotum chin

was ultra-distracting.

In the movie version, I don't think Gandalf has been to Dol Guldur yet. Must have been given the key before Thrain went wandering off.

Spoiler

Bilbo as action-hero was early

, but I can live with it.

Riddles in the Dark was well done.

I do believe that Thorin in the book made the distinction between King Thranduil's elves and Elrond's elves. The over-arching distrust by the dwarves for all things elvish was tiring.

I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:15 am

Beorn is here visiting me until Chr-stmas day. I really, really, really hope we'll have the opportunity to see a portrayal of his namesake together...

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:29 pm

ItisWritten wrote:In the movie version, I don't think Gandalf has been to Dol Guldur yet. Must have been given the key before Thrain went wandering off.

Agreed. The movie cannot be exactly like the book or we would have missed all that wonderful Radagast weirdness.

Now I am curious, though. Are the other two wizards ever named in any of the expanded writings that Christopher Tolkein published over the years? We know there are five but only three ever show up.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:52 pm

Alatar and Pallando - both with sea-blue robes for some reason. And they didn't show up due to their location.

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:01 pm

I saw it last weekend and loved it!
And I hated the LotR movies with a passion.
The changes mentioned above were all forgivable to me.
Except the pale Orc part.
That seemed silly and unnecessary.

It was great seeing the Eagles in action.
I thought it was very effective how they showed them as a physical threat.
The book describes what they did but to see it was much more powerful.

Radagast was great.
I'm not sure why people expected anything but a goodhearted light characterization of him.
In the Books Sauruman thought him a joke and Gandalf could only support him by saying he was a good guy.
My kids loved him which is the most important and it didn't really take away from the story.
I also think it was be a nice setup for the White Council attack on Don Guldur in the 2nd movie.

There's always been talk on Tolkien discussion forums about the difference (if any) between Orcs and Goblins.
i think this, like the Balrog's wings, was handled very well.
Goblins are smaller than Orcs and the movie got that dead on.

i want to see it again.

Post by **Hashi Lebwohl** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:19 pm

Effaeldm wrote:Alatar and Pallando - both with sea-blue robes for some reason. And they didn't show up due to their location.

Thank you. I will have to look up both of them at some point.

Post by **rdhopeca** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:45 am

I definitely liked it, but I haven't read the book in years. I didn't like it as much as LOTR per se, and I found the CGI Azog a little "flat" instead of the typical depth on the screen (I saw the 2D version), but the Gollum scene was flat out fantastic and the time seemed to fly by.

Post by **Cameraman Jenn** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:32 am

I haven't seen it yet but my Dad did and he said it was pretty fantastic and made him want to revisit the book.

Post by **JazFusion** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:38 am

I saw it last weekend. I thought it was good. Something about the pacing seemed off to me. I haven't read the book in years, though.

Post by **Horrim Carabal** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:10 pm

I haven't chimed in because I'm not a huge Tolkien fan. The Hobbit was a book I read when I was 13 or so, didn't love it or hate it, then moved on.

The movie? Didn't love it or hate it. Ready to move on.

....as an aside though: Tolkien seems very interested in revenant characters, like Durin's Bane, the last Balrog in Middle Earth, hiding under a mountain for centuries or milennia before the dwarves woke him up, and Smaug, the last fire-drake, sleeping atop his pile of stolen treasure.

Not that I mind these themes/characters, I actually like the idea. I wonder what would have happened if the heroes hadn't slain these last vestiges of the First Age, and Sauron was able to contact/recruit them to his cause. Would Smaug even obey Sauron? I assume his leader was Ancalagon, Morgoth's lieutenant. But Sauron was Morgoth's chief general, although I can't really picture Sauron trying to pull rank on Ancalagon the Black. Not a good idea, most likely.

Similarly, would the Balrog of Moria have obeyed Sauron and done his bidding? Durin's Bane followed Gothmog in the First Age, although like I said Sauron probably technically outranked the Balrog king. However, I wouldn't bet on Sauron in a one-on-one battle with Gothmog.

These creatures would have made Sauron's forces even more unstoppable, had they not been killed by Gandalf and/or that archer guy. But I wonder if Smaug and Durin's Bane would have seen themselves more as Sauron's equal or partner rather than servants?

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:43 am

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Radagast was great.
I'm not sure why people expected anything but a goodhearted light characterization of him.
In the Books Sauruman thought him a joke and Gandalf could only support him by saying he was a good guy.
My kids loved him which is the most important and it didn't really take away from the story.

The 7th Doctor lives on in Radagast the Brown!

Sylvestor McCoy was great in the role.

Post by **[Syl]** » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:46 pm

Other than the arrival of the dwarfs, the thunder battle, and the flight through the hall*, I really didn't care for the movie. Just seemed all wrong to me, even though I was a fan of the other movies. The Hobbit was my favorite book growing up, and such a big departure from the tone of the book seemed to be making it into something it wasn't, going from simple adventure story to epic. The whole Thorin/Bilbo and Thorin/Azog thing was too sappy, Radagast was goofy, and Saruman was too big of a dick.

Post by **SoulBiter** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:16 am

I havent seen it yet but plan to this coming weekend. But I also want to see Les Misarables....

Post by **Cagliostro** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:03 pm

Menolly wrote:Beorn is here visiting me until Chr-stmas day. I really, really, really hope we'll have the opportunity to see a portrayal of his namesake together...

FYI - he isn't in part 1. I know the character has been cast, so I'm guessing part 2, unless Beorn has been shoved into an Extended Edition cut.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

The Hobbit