Batman vs Superman...here we go again...

[wayfriend]

wayfriend, that comic details the typical strategy for defeating any "unbeatable" opponent and is one I, myself, have stated before. Excellent find!

[Hashi Lebwohl]

aTOMic, don't forget--the Hulk isn't strong without leverage. He needs to be grounded to be effective.

Well Hashi I guess you didn't see the end of the first HULK movie. Apparently he can fight and defeat a nebulous cloud entity without any leverage at all.

Just saying.

No, I saw that movie and even enjoyed it, split screens and all. The Hulk did not defeat his father who was the Absorbing Man even though they didn't use that name with strength but by releasing all his rage and gamma ray energy. His father couldn't absorb that much, so *boom*.

Gripping one arm in each hand and pulling apart doesn't require ground leverage.

This is true, but can the Hulk dislocate one of Superman's shoulders, or even pull the arm completely out of its socket, before the heat vision burns a hole through his chest while rising quickly through the mesosphere into the thermosphere?

[aTOMiC]

No, I saw that movie and even enjoyed it, split screens and all. The Hulk did not defeat his father who was the Absorbing Man even though they didn't use that name with strength but by releasing all his rage and gamma ray energy. His father couldn't absorb that much, so *boom*.

I have seen "HULK" several times and I am very familiar with the Absorbing man and the context with which you reference the comic character however there is precious little information presented in the actual film to be able to describe with any true certainty what is precisely taking place however I don't disagree with your conclusion.

So Hulk could smash puny Superman with rage and radiation.


Hmmmm. I like the sound of that. I will call my next band Rage and Radiation.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I have seen "HULK" several times and I am very familiar with the Absorbing man and the context with which you reference the comic character however there is precious little information presented in the actual film to be able to describe with any true certainty what is precisely taking place however I don't disagree with your conclusion.

So Hulk could smash puny Superman with rage and radiation.


Hmmmm. I like the sound of that. I will call my next band Rage and Radiation.

Agreed--the ending of the movie is rather confusing, which is why that particular movie should have ended after the last father/son meeting and both make their getaway. *shrug*

That is a very cool band name!

[sgt.null]

it is said that Green Lantern can split atoms with his ring. can he make kryptonite?

the latest JLA we see Firestorm making kryptonite.

[wayfriend]

Agreed--the ending of the movie is rather confusing, which is why that particular movie should have ended after the last father/son meeting and both make their getaway. *shrug*

Hulk resolve repressed father issues. Hulk feel better.

[___]

The Hulk is incredibly formidible on the ground; lift him into the air and the majority of his leverage is gone.

Leverage? THE HULK DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' LEVERAGE!

[sgt.null]

I can see Thor beating Superman, being a god and all. and a magic hammer, and weather control, and flight, and strength, and invulnerability, and being magic....

otherwise - Gladiator and Hyperion are likely a step below.

Super-Adaptoid should be able to beat Superman.

Hercules is just a brawler...

[Hashi Lebwohl]

it is said that Green Lantern can split atoms with his ring. can he make kryptonite?

the latest JLA we see Firestorm making kryptonite.

That depends entirely upon the individual Lantern in question. It should be possible for the ring to act as an electron microscope, allowing its wielder to "see" the atomic or even subatomic level and then move the appropriate particles into place, building kryptonite at that level.
This, of course, forces us into the next question: is kryptonite an element or a compound? Clearly, it is a radioactive compound comprised of the minerals found on Krypton but there is no logical reason to presume that there was some mineral on Krypton that would be found nowhere else in the universe and therefore it should be possible to create at least the mineral content of Kryptonite in a lab. The radioactive components are a different matter entirely. Perhaps it is the combination of the correct isotopes in the correct proportion....but technically that would still allow for artificial lab-grown Kryptonite. A careful chemical and radioactive analysis of Kryptonite should allow for its artificial creation--I cannot possibly be the first person ever to consider that, can I?
Anyway....all of that should be possible for a sufficiently-skill Lantern. It is effortless for an alchemist like Firestorm, presuming they have analyzed Kryptonite's chemical composition before--they may create as much of it as they want.

I can see Thor beating Superman, being a god and all. and a magic hammer, and weather control, and flight, and strength, and invulnerability, and being magic....

otherwise - Gladiator and Hyperion are likely a step below.

Super-Adaptoid should be able to beat Superman.

Hercules is just a brawler...

For starters, the whole "here, Superman, hold this hammer" would be good for a laugh. Mjolnir is definitely magic, so that gives him a distinct advantage. Technically, Hercules has a mace made of uru metal (or whatever the Olympian equivalent is) but he rarely uses it but his other disadvantages--no flight, no other ranged offensive ability--would put him out of the competition.

Unless Marvel has nerfed Juggernaut to the point of being useless, his original form would be a good match--he is invulnerable to physical harm and so even Superman at his strongest couldn't hurt him, much less use heat vision. This negates Superman's two greatest advantages, leaving only his increased speed and flight. He wouldn't lose against Mr. Marko but he might not win, either.

I would offer Absorbing Man but Creel isn't smart enough to take on Superman. Still...that would make him incredibly powerful for the duration of the fight.

[Rawedge Rim]

biggest problem with defeating Superman is the Superspeed. Lot's of virtually invunerables out there, lots of physically powerful, lot's that fly, but almost none (with the exception of Captain Marvel and Black Adam) that have all the above abilities plus they are magic based.

Thor: too slow
Hulk: too slow
Sentry: probably too slow
Hercules: too slow
Hyperion: not sure, it would be close
Thanos: would be interesting
Any Sorcerer Supreme: wins

[sgt.null]

Thor is infused with magic. it would be a close fight. and is the lightning he summons magic?

[Rawedge Rim]

Thor is infused with magic. it would be a close fight. and is the lightning he summons magic?

I don't think that Thor's lightning is in itself magical, unlike Captain Marvels's, so that wouldn't make it work better than normal, but it's possible that Thor could possibly generate more powerful bolts than nature. The Hammer OTOH probably wouldn't feel to good.

One problem with Thor on this is that Mjorlnir, might find Superman worthy................

[wayfriend]

Behold.



(Click the picture, silly.)

[Hashi Lebwohl]

DC/Warner will really have to outdo themselves to make this a better movie event than Civil War. Truthfully, I hope they can--DC/Warner has had a truly awful track record on the big screen, a few random movies here and there notwithstanding.

I still can't figure out why this Superman is even bothering with a secret identity. Extraterrestrials arrive on Earth in over-the-top fashion and they go to Smallville, Kansas of all places. Once there, one of their ships goes to Martha Kent's farm--clearly the person they are looking for is there or was there. What's that, you say? They have a son named Clark? A look into his history combined with Lois Lane's article she leaked to the web-news hack Woodward means that Clark Kent is the person for whom the aliens are searching.

Still....the government and Lex Luthor having access to Zod's remains cannot be a good thing. He is dead so we can presume that his invulnerability is already gone or is diminishing rapidly as the body decays so the process of forensic autopsy begins, looking for weaknesses or vulnerabilities to exploit. Also, the scout ship remained mostly intact so the techs are on round-the-clock shifts engaging in the process of reverse engineering to see what advances we can uncover from the ship. If the atmospherics on the ship can be duplicated then Kryptonian air can temporarily weaken him. There may not be enough from the device which landed in the South Pacific to salvage but every little bit helps.

hrm...I wonder if there were any sidearms or rifles in the scout ship's armory, presuming it had one?

Zod's key is still in the control panel so the computer should be accessible, presuming it accepts input from anyone other than Zod. Maybe that's what his body is for--to trick the computer into believing "yes, I am Zod--scan my genetic code for yourself--but the recent battle damaged by vocal chords, which is why I don't sound like myself". Access to the computer archives would be invaluable--access to knowledge or technology centuries ahead of your own is a super power in its own right even if unearned knowledge contains unforseen dangers.

[I'm Murrin]

I like that they appear to be addressing the destruction of Metropolis, and even showing it from an outside perspective as the fight causes massive collateral damage. Still not sold that this will actually be much good, though. I don't think the tone of Man of Steel really suited Superman, and they're keeping it up in this one.

In related news, it seems that Ben Affleck will be directing and co-writing the next Batman film. That, at least, may be worth seeing.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Many people criticized the movie specifically because of all the damage that the fight caused in Metropolis. "Superman wouldn't do that--he would be too concerned about the people" is fine argument but it misses the point--Zod wanted to cause maximum destruction and maximum casualties so he was going to keep the fight in the population center as long as possible. Superman's only options were a) fight on Zod's terms or b) stand by and let him level the city. Viewed from that perspective the events which took place really weren't his fault--he couldn't possibly know that the scout ship would send out a homing signal and he could not reason with his fellow Kryptonians.

Man of Steel was scripted specifically to demonstrate how dangerous Superman can be. What if something pissed him off and he decided to take it out on us? Or what if he simply didn't care--how could anyone make him take responsibility for his actions? That family in the train station, although grateful for his assistance, watched him snap someone else's neck with his bare hands. From the outset, we have a person trying to find their path to being a hero who has blood on his hands.

I just had a stupid thought. They aren't going to clone Zod, are they? I am pretty certain the genesis pods on the scout ship were smashed but if even one survived the crash intact and someone figures out how to use it, possibly via the activated computer system and its key, then they could regrow him. Even worse, they could regrown him with enhancements as some sort of abomination but then that would be Doomsday. No, they wouldn't be that stereotypical, would they?

Mr. Affleck gets a lot of grief for some of the flops he has been in over the years but I challenge you to name any actor who hasn't been in at least one or two flops during their career.

[wayfriend]

Man of Steel was scripted specifically to demonstrate how dangerous Superman can be. What if something pissed him off and he decided to take it out on us?

There seems to be some debate on whether or not BvsS was planned when they made MoS, or not.

I can say that this trailer has made me want to see it, which I haven't. I'll certainly want to see it before I see BvsS.

What do you guys think of EissenLuthor? Is he going to pull it off? Frankly, I think I enjoy how he alludes the the latest generation of corporate giants like Zuckerberg (who of course Jesse already played), Woodman, etc.

Five Things to Know About the New Lex Luthor

[Orlion]

biggest problem with defeating Superman is the Superspeed. Lot's of virtually invunerables out there, lots of physically powerful, lot's that fly, but almost none (with the exception of Captain Marvel and Black Adam) that have all the above abilities plus they are magic based.

Thor: too slow
Hulk: too slow
Sentry: probably too slow
Hercules: too slow
Hyperion: not sure, it would be close
Thanos: would be interesting
Any Sorcerer Supreme: wins

Starting to investigate some DC comic characters, what about Doctor Fate vs Superman? I mean, he seems to be a DC Sorcerer Supreme (or Doctor Strange is a Marvel Doctor Fate... I don't know!)

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

I can say that this trailer has made me want to see it, which I haven't. I'll certainly want to see it before I see BvsS.

I thought MoS was excellent. I've been growing increasingly fond of Snyder's directorial vision (even the much-maligned Sucker Punch), so I'm really lookin' forward to BvS.

[wayfriend]

I liked Sucker Punch. I thought it was profound.

I would say that Snyder struggles to achieve a gravitas that matches what DC is looking for in their franchise, and which Marvel so far has shied away from. It's a plan, but will people buy tickets? People seem to prefer their comic book heroes with popcorn, not profundity.