Tipping.

[peter]

Having spent four days in local hotels enjoying the best that the hospitality industry can provide, the one fly in an otherwise insect free ointment was the knotty subject of tipping - who, when, how and how much; or indeed these days with minnimum wage etc is it neccesary at all. These are my thoughts.

One of the establishments said in the 'in room hotel guide' that tipping was entierly discretionary and not expected, however if it were desired to be done then it was requested that an addition was made to the final account at check-out, that would then be fairly distributed across the board of staff members at a later point. This was a good method and a major help in 'getting it right'. 10 % added to the account - job done. A second place we stayed added a 10% 'discretionary' service charge to the restaurant bill [which presumably you could ask to be withdrawn if you chose]. Again -job done. I saw no reason to add further to this at the time, but now realise that the hotel chamber staff were probably not party to a share in this gratuity [guilt creeps in ]. Next place - very reserved and 'up market'. No sign of money ever changing hands in the restaurant or anything so I did not sully the atmosphere by introducing 'filthy lucre' into the mix. At my departure - and after having paid - I saw a note on the bottom of the account, "Service charge is not added and is at the discretion of the guest". [Major clangor dropped ]

Now never a fan of automatically added gratuities in the past, I have now revised my opinion somewhat. If all establishments added say a 10% discretionary service charge at the point of departure and made it plain beforehand [in the reservation or where ever] that this would be done and the proceeds distributed and that no additional tipping was required the entire process would be simplified and standardised rather than as the 'free for all' system that currently pertains. Guilt and a desire for justice now demands that I write to the establishment where I fell short and send an appropriate gratuity for the service I recieved.

[I'm Murrin]

I dislike tipping, and think wages should be adjusted and prices increased if staff are relying on tips to get by. Tipping isn't common practice in the UK, pretty much never done at bars and hotels, but I'm never quite sure what to do about it at restaurants, where I think it is expected when there isn't a charge... I dunno, I just get uncomfortable about what I should leave.

[aTOMiC]

Like many other social anxiety issues that I suffer from Tipping procedures are always a bit of a chore for me. Indeed how much, when and why are somewhat ambiguous to me aside from dinning in a restaurant which I've experienced enough to muddle through fairly well. How much do you tip for a hair cut? When the porter brings up your luggage and opens the room for you how much should you have handy?

Here's the biggest problem I have: I almost always pay for everything I buy or use with plastic of one sort or another. Not only is it impossible to help out pan handlers and Salvation Army Santas at Christmas but in every instance where cash is needed for tipping I'm in a spot.

Thankfully when accompanied by my wife she usually handles such things unless she uses the "You are the man" card in which case I step up as best I can.

I guess I'll never become comfortable with tipping in general unless I can afford to do it on a daily basis.

[peter]

I wonder how necessary it is in the western world these days. Ok - in a third world country where the hotel waiter earns nothing per hour [in comparison to you] maybe - but in the places I stayed in there was no sign of poverty or hardship and in all likelyhood the staff earned as much as me. It seems a bit anachronistic in this day and age [in the west at least].

[sgt.null]

Julie handles the tipping since I have no clue.

[Harbinger]

Be sure to tip the pizza guy. He knows where you live. And I can assure you he remembers the people who either don't tip/tip $1 or less. I HATED getting a check and a dollar. Addresses in a delivery area are easy to memorize. These guys drive those streets daily and they will always remember the "bad" houses. When I delivered pizza, I would open the boxes of the no tippers, let their pizzas cool off, and deliver them last. (I didn't open the boxes of the dollar people- just dropped 'em of last.)

[I'm Murrin]

When I order pizza, I pay online and no one ever seems to expect a tip. (I wondered, the first time, but they were like "There you go. Bye!"

[Hashi Lebwohl]

We try to tip 20% or 25% when we eat out. Those folks are actually taxed on their tips, which merely adds insult to the injury that their flat hourly wages are often below minimum wage (this is allowed to happen because the expectation is that they will receive tips and this puts them over the minimum). If you can, tip your food service professional in cash, which doesn't have to be reported...but make certain you give it to them in person, which avoids some bastard walking by your table and picking up the money.

[peter]

Clearly a big difference in peoples approach to this knotty little business. Hashi's 20 to 25% would be beyond my means - we save really hard to go to the best graded eating establishments, but they cost a lot of money [incidentally - all the to London eateries add a 12% 'discretionary' service charge automatically now and this does save the hassle of even thinking about it.] To be allowed to pay less wages than the statutary minimum on the basis of expectation of tips making up the shortfall makes a nonsense of the whole idea, in my oppinion.

My standard rate is 10% and by and large seems to be recognised [in the UK at least] as around the correct rate. In restaurants it's relatively simple - you have an idea of what your tab will be in advance and just make sure you have appropriate cash to hand. In hotels it is somewhat harder because you do not always see those individuals who should be tipped and if you put tips on the final bill you are taking it on trust that they will go where you want them to. Also as Hashi says, the staff are going to get hit for tax on them.

[Vader]

Fortunately enough I live in a country where waiters don't have to rely on tips.

I only give tip is in restautrants or cafes, but then it's only a few cents or a so. For example, when I have a coffee for 1.80€ I pay 2€ and leave the rest as a tip. If the meal is 57€ I give 60€. It's basically rounding up and more like symbolic. It also helps to avoid having my pockets full of small coins.

I remember being in Italy as a child. They still had Lira back then. 1 DM (deutsche Mark) was like 600 Italian Lire. My father got the conversion wrong and gave like 50 Dm instead of 5 DM. He instantly noticed his mistake but his pride kept him from demanding the money back. The waitress must have also guessed that something was wrong because the next day us kids - me and my sis - got meals for free,

[Harbinger]

When I order pizza, I pay online and no one ever seems to expect a tip. (I wondered, the first time, but they were like "There you go. Bye!"

You didn't have cash in hand and also your body language told them a lot. They deliver 20-40 pizzas per shift, so they are experts at frontdoor body language.

You don't think it's worth something to save time and gas and sit on your butt and have hot food handed to you? You are costing the poor guy/gal money by not tipping. They wasted their gas and time on you.

Not getting a tip for delivering a pizza is extremely rare. You are definitely in a minority. I'm trying to put a number on it, but maybe once or twice a week I'd get stiffed. And they are always lower class people. I remember getting stiffed at a nice house only once in my life.

The only time it's OK to not tip in the US is at Indian buffets. They almost always don't let the waiters keep the tips. Besides, buffets are not full service- I only leave $1 per guest at non-Indian buffets. Most Sushi bars split the tip between the server and the chefs.

I tip 15% for OK service, 20% for good and 25%+ for great. I give some $100 tips from time to time too. Just for the hell of it when I feel compelled. I've had a couple of people get pretty emotional about it and I've had a couple of people try to give it back. Unbelievable!!

[I'm Murrin]

You don't think it's worth something to save time and gas and sit on your butt and have hot food handed to you? You are costing the poor guy/gal money by not tipping. They wasted their gas and time on you.

Actually, something tells me they were being paid to do it. And I'm talking big chain stuff like Dominos, Pizza Hut, where the pizzas are expensive, not some little local place where it's cheap and might not pay the delivery guys well. (Pretty sure those companies will be paying for the petrol and such, too.)

[Harbinger]

If you are ordering from one of the "big three" I can assure you that your driver is being paid minimum wage. He also gets 75 cents or $1.25 or something per pizza. His tips are what he relies on to make the job worthwhile.

I guarantee some of the guys have got your address memorized. You are one of the one or two people a week who stiffs them.

[EDIT] When I say you cost him money what I mean is that if he hadn't delivered to you, he would have delivered to someone else in that time and probably gotten a tip. He made less money on his shift thanks to you. There is only a finite number of pizzas per shift one can deliver.

[I'm Murrin]

Pounds. Not dollars. Which is also why I'm not sure if your experience applies.

[Harbinger]

Sounds like the UK needs some standards. I like tipping. I always leave a memorable tip and look the bartender in the eye on the first drink of the night and it pays off big time in the long run!!

[I'm Murrin]

Nobody tips in bars in the UK. It's just not done, at all. As for our standards, I guess we chose to apply them to paying our staff in the first place.

(I think one of the major differences in tipping culture between the US and UK is that in the UK the minimum wage is absolute, regardless of anything else you might get on top of wages, while I get the impression that in the US you can be classed as earning minimum wage even if you're paid below that but expected to receive tips.)

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Tipping in the US is culturally different than much of Europe, which is why service is different. I have found though that Europeans who have the personality to adapt to US service customs are perhaps the best you will find anywhere. We usually prefer a more gregarious server in the US, though that is somewhat muted at higher end establishments where knowledge, efficiency and anticipation are emphasized more than personality. We (the wife and I) tip 20% for good service, less for simply adequate, more if the situation demands it.

[lorin]

20% in NY, closing in on 25%.

I don't mind tipping. It's a tough world out there and if you can afford to eat out you can afford to tip. period. But I am not paying for servers with attitude, fingers in my food, dirty glasses or dirty linens. Bad food is another story. I don't blame the server for that.

[peter]

Lets just put things into perspective. I like good food and I like nice hotels. I saved every week, missing out on stuff like going to the cinema, having the odd take-away, buying books I want to read instead of waiting for the library to get them, so that I could spend four nights in the best hotels and eat in the best restaurants my area has to offer. I'm not rich - the people who work in the places I visited may think I am, but I'm not. I work in a 7 - 11 store for around $10 per hour for fourty hours a week. No one tips me when I open the shop early just so they can get their paper on the way to work at 6am. No one tips me when I hold the shop open so they can buy that last bottle of wine at 11.05 pm and no one tips me when I carry a 50lb sack of coal from the bunker to the boot of thier car. In the restaurant where I had my last meal the waitress told me that she wouldnt be coming back to the hotel next year because she was "going travelling in the far-east and New Zealand" for a year. And I'm supposed to give *her* money. [I did.]

[lorin]

A server in the higher end NY area restaurants makes about $3.00/hr before tips. BUT in the lower end chain restaurants some make minimum wage of $8.50/hr. 80% of them have to pay their own health care insurance with that wage. That costs about $800/month for a single (I am paying $964/month) so most don't have health insurance. My hairstylist makes $7.00/hr before tips and works 60 hours a week. Since she has a tip based salary her employer is not required to pay her time and a half (overtime) if she works over 40 hours. My foster daughter works as a home health attendant for $8.50 an hour. In order to avoid having to offer health insurance and overtime she is not allowed to work more than 30 hr/wk and she is on-call 24 hrs a day. The rent in the poorest area of NYC for a one bedroom apartment is at least $1250.00/month. Like I said, tough world.