B*tch slapped!! (spoilers)

[Krilly]

Haha, oh man! The Despiser's biggest mistake was underestimating a woman scorned. Getting God-Slapped was one of my favorite parts of the finale, and strangely humorous.

Are there any parts of TLD that struck you as funny, even considering the tone or setting?

Another one for me was the caamora. Despite being a somber read, I had a momentary lapse and couldn't help but briefly think "The Giants are playing wild magic hot potato!" Then I pictured TC going "Wheeeee!" when lifted into the air like a child.

Damn my brain.

[Savor Dam]

While I have made a reputation for some years of repeating my faith in SRD to do justice to this final volume, I was a bit disappointed in how little narrative was devoted to SHE's name reveal and her actions once released from Bane-hood.

[rdhopeca]

While I have made a reputation for some years of repeating my faith in SRD to do justice to this final volume, I was a bit disappointed in how little narrative was devoted to SHE's name reveal and her actions once released from Bane-hood.

I concur with this. In fact, I went back and read the name reveal several times, certain I had missed something.

[QuantumMechanic]

I concur with this. In fact, I went back and read the name reveal several times, certain I had missed something.

Oh good. I'm not the only one who did that.

[TheFallen]

Likewise regarding more info on SHE... SHE's obviously intended to be seen as mportant (well, hopefully more important than a mere Deus Ex Machina) and there are hints in the last pages that Linden's contact with experiences in releasing SHE bestowed vitally important knowledge to everyone's favourite whiner in her helping to deliver the sadly rushed "and they all lived happily ever after" dénouement.

I have to confess, I was also neatly wrenched out of my suspension of disbelief several times by what seemed clangingly accidentally humorous events that clashed horribly with the overall narrative tone...

1. The SHE right hook on of Lord Foul (I instantly thought of the word "bitchslap" as well - "yo momma's gonna slap you upside the head, fool/Foul!").

2. The Giants playing "pass the Caamora" parcel with TC.

3. TC's progress through the Sarangrave like Tarzan being swung on the vines of the Lurker's tentacles.

Not great - more of my impressions in the "TLD First Impressions" thread to follow...

[dlbpharmd]

While I have made a reputation for some years of repeating my faith in SRD to do justice to this final volume, I was a bit disappointed in how little narrative was devoted to SHE's name reveal and her actions once released from Bane-hood.

I concur with this. In fact, I went back and read the name reveal several times, certain I had missed something.

That part was just awful. I don't see any need to keep her name hidden, and certainly no reason to mimic JK Rowling. She could have easily been Diassomer Mininderain, and we would've named it excellent foreshadowing from Sunder's song in TWL.

[earthbrah]

dlbpharmd wrote:

That part was just awful. I don't see any need to keep her name hidden, and certainly no reason to mimic JK Rowling. She could have easily been Diassomer Mininderain, and we would've named it excellent foreshadowing from Sunder's song in TWL.

Agreed. I wish the GI was still active so we could ask SRD what he was thinking about this "reveal." I want to believe that we are missing something, but I don't think we are, sadly...

[Iolanthe]

Haha, oh man! The Despiser's biggest mistake was underestimating a woman scorned. Getting God-Slapped was one of my favorite parts of the finale, and strangely humorous.

A little Monty Pythonesque I thought, or even The Goodies! The big fist.

I agree with the disappointment over SWMNBN's name. I completely missed it until I read your comments. I thought she hadn't been named! "I am MYSELF" is not a name.

[Krilly]

I don't mind that the name is never revealed, she was merely reminded of who She is. At the end TC hints at the three of them having dangerous knowledge. I believe Lindens knowledge is the name.

[High Lord Tolkien]

There's no more danger in knowing her name since She is gone.
I liked my initial reaction to the Fist of God moment as being, as the Arch was finally open, the one and only time the Creator could safely act and he acts.....perfectly.
Then I learn it was She.....still kinda cool. Not as much though.

[earthbrah]

High Lord Tolkien wrote:

I liked my initial reaction to the Fist of God moment as being, as the Arch was finally open, the one and only time the Creator could safely act and he acts.....perfectly.
Then I learn it was She.....still kinda cool. Not as much though.

That was pretty much my reaction exactly. I actually visualized a gap in the fabric of reality through which the Creator reached and punched. I even think it might have been worthwhile just leaving this ambiguous, leaving it up to us the readers to conclude what we will. Alas...

[iQuestor]

Ill echo those last Posts. I thought it was the Creator. But not, it was SHe Who Is Still Not Named But Somehow OK With It.

[Savor Dam]

I know there are manifest flaws in this suggestion, but I will throw it out anyway: You are all correct, because that is who She is.

Beggar aside, what makes more sense than a feminine Creator? What more fitting revenge could Foul have had when being imprisoned in the Land's reality than to pull the Creator (not his brother, but his sister or mate) in with him, deprive the Creator of knowledge of Her identity and shackle Her as a Bane within the Earth?

Stripped of awareness of Her nature and warped by Despite, how ironic it is that She spends Her time absorbing scorned and wronged females...how appropriate that when She is awakened to Herself, She essentially says "I am that I am", echoing G-d's utterance of "אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה" when Moses asks for His name.

I am content.

[earthbrah]

If what you say is true, then that might potentially mean that She/Creator has been trapped as a bane this whole time...? That twisted by despite and thus deprived of Her essential nature, her name is less invoking than is Her reawakening to the reality of Her own goddesshood? Hell, you might be on to something.

I definitely agree that having a female creator makes a lot of sense. And remembering your essential nature was a consistent theme throughout this book. What of the beggar, then? Was he just an emissary, a messager? I think the flaw in this idea is the mechanism by which the beggar and She/Creator are connected. TPTP clearly indicated the man in the ochre robe as the Creator...

[TheFallen]

I've also thought that SHE is at least an aspect of the Creator. Although SHE's not just Diassomer Mininderain, Diassomer seems to inform a large part of HER "character".

To me, SHE uncorrupted may well be the Yin to the Creator's Yang - representing the nurturing element of creativity, rather than the act of creation itself. If accurate, this potentially makes HER implied relationship to the Creator in several ways similar to Linden's relationship with Covenant. The latter's usage of power evolves (and necessarily so) to be gentler than TC's and the redemptive core of her being centres as much on the caring nature of motherhood as it does the focussed restraint of the doctor...

[dlbpharmd]

Stripped of awareness of Her nature and warped by Despite, how ironic it is that She spends Her time absorbing scorned and wronged females...how appropriate that when She is awakened to Herself, She essentially says "I am that I am", echoing G-d's utterance of "אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה" when Moses asks for His name.

This wasn't lost on me, and it's consistent with SRD's fundamentalist upbringing and the other religious elements to the overall story. Still, it's difficult to reconcile with the 1st and 2nd Chronicles - unless one takes into account the relentless retconning that SRD has accomplished in the Last Chronicles.

[Damelon]

dlbpharmd wrote:

That part was just awful. I don't see any need to keep her name hidden, and certainly no reason to mimic JK Rowling. She could have easily been Diassomer Mininderain, and we would've named it excellent foreshadowing from Sunder's song in TWL.

Agreed. I wish the GI was still active so we could ask SRD what he was thinking about this "reveal." I want to believe that we are missing something, but I don't think we are, sadly...

On reread, I'm taking away the conclusion that it's a cry of relief from SHE rather than identification that has her shout "I AM MYSELF". Linden showed her how to heal. She did, shedding the souls of the women, and was able to leave the world, giving a smack to Foul along the way. Her smack was payback, helping deny Foul what he most desired.

Also, in the demondim-spawn who help her heal are transformed into beings who can help Caerwood ur-Mahrtiir heal the world. A vindication of Linden's purpose as healer. On reflection, it ties up Linden's story nicely.

[TheFallen]

dlbpharmd wrote:

That part was just awful. I don't see any need to keep her name hidden, and certainly no reason to mimic JK Rowling. She could have easily been Diassomer Mininderain, and we would've named it excellent foreshadowing from Sunder's song in TWL.

Agreed. I wish the GI was still active so we could ask SRD what he was thinking about this "reveal." I want to believe that we are missing something, but I don't think we are, sadly...

On reread, I'm taking away the conclusion that it's a cry of relief from SHE rather than identification that has her shout "I AM MYSELF". Linden showed her how to heal. She did, shedding the souls of the women, and was able to leave the world, giving a smack to Foul along the way. Her smack was payback, helping deny Foul what he most desired.

Also, in the demondim-spawn who help her heal are transformed into beings who can help Caerwood ur-Mahrtiir heal the world. A vindication of Linden's purpose as healer. On reflection, it ties up Linden's story nicely.

Your interpretation matches mine, Damelon. HER cry of "I AM MYSELF" is not in the least a cop-out revelation of HER name or identity, but very definitely an avowal that SHE has been healed and returned to HER true nature.

Having said that, I also support the point as to what the big deal is about HER name needing never to be revealed - I mean, this could not be more emphasised by the title given to HER in the first place - She Who Must Not Be Named, fercrissakes. SRD himself didn't help matters in the GI (I think), when he hinted that if SHE ever found out her true name, the Arch of Time might crack. But there's no supporting exposition for this.

Okay, by all means call a character or narrative creation She Who Must Not Be Named - but at least acknowledge that this begs two questions, namely:-

a) So, what is her name, but far more importantly...

b) WHY NOT?

I can't see any issue in SHE actually being Diassomer. I mean SHE's obviously a deity of some sort, as per her ascension outside the Arch of Time once healed (and her nonchalant ability to slap LF upside the head), and Diassomer was after all the Creator's "wife" in some sense, before Lord Foul managed to corrupt her, so she was originally some sort of godlike being from outside Time... so where's the problem in that? Why the narrative insistence on such a big and unresolved loose end secret? I mean, SRD rubs our very noses in it....

[Ur Dead]

SHE's name could be anything. In that world Foamfollower said it best.. Names have power over the entity.


Supposition on my part is:
She was the consort to the Creator.
She could have a hand in the creation.
She most probably been the Mother to all life on the planet.
It was in this that Foul was able to seduce SHE into traveling to the planet to examine her works.
Foul may have already placed his banes and was going to abandon her before the arch was sealed.
The Creator saw Foul's deed and as Foul tried to leave the ensuing battle the Creator slapped Foul down to the planet and sealed the Arch.
The Creator didn't see his consort while battling Foul.
SHE realized that she was trapped and felt betrayed by Foul, search for him and fell into a dispair.
She gave succor to women who were abandon but after ages the minds of those women impacted on SHE and became more of a mad avenging entity than a haven.

The Theomach when explaining to Barek the meaning of the seven words said "Life"
He may have deduced who SHE was and her intent in the scheme of creation. His travels allow him to aquired the seven words and the lost deep may have been a placed where he traveled. His knowledge of time would have protected him against SHE.
I read somewhere that the Gutrock even laminated for SHE. The stone of the Earth caused landsdrop to place SHE so far down that on rare occations SHE would arise to take a abandon female or destroy a male who ventured into her domain. Otherwise SHE could have arisen and devestated the Earth and Arch before the one forest was formed.

When Linden freed SHE from her mancles and SHE knew who she was.
She gain from Linden where she had to go when the ARCH fell. She knew life should have failed and whom she had to blame.
She just didn't "Bitch-slapped" Foul. She Cold-cocked his butt. She as us older people say. "Knocked him into next week"
Foul didn't put much up a fight when Thomas snach him. He couldn't.

She may have been a plot device but SHE fit into the scheme SRD had when he created his world.

[native]

Having said that, I also support the point as to what the big deal is about HER name needing never to be revealed - I mean, this could not be more emphasised by the title given to HER in the first place - She Who Must Not Be Named, fercrissakes. SRD himself didn't help matters in the GI (I think), when he hinted that if SHE ever found out her true name, the Arch of Time might crack. But there's no supporting exposition for this.

I seem to recall there was a short one when it was discussed what would happen if the Worm made it to Mount Thuinder