Whither the Watch?

[Vraith]

I started making a few incremental changes based on the ones that made the most sense to me. I am open to making others, based on popular suggestions. I think Murrin and Fallen are on the right track.

-jay

Just something....I don't know if it's related to this, a temporary side effect while you move things around, or what.
But just IN CASE it's a big deal and it has been noted yet:

Search isn't working right. I think I first noticed it on Sunday...which seems to predate you messing around.
Posts/topics/threads don't show up. Some are only missing the last week or two, some much longer than that...[for instance searching myself as author, search says I last posted over a month ago. For fun, I searched sgt.null. He apparently posted last over 4 years ago. And we both have EXACTLY 7500 posts.
I didn't really note/track the other oddnesses...should have...
Like I said...I don't know if it's just a temp. side effect, but just in case you didn't know it was going on, now you do.

[rdhopeca]

I can change it back you big crybaby.

Just testing to see how I felt about having it there.

-jay

So far it looks good to me, fwiw. Makes more sense and gives a better sense of what we're about.

[kevinswatch]

Ok, I think I finished tinkering for now.

Not sure what the problem with search is?

-jay

[I'm Murrin]

Vraith, the search function's been broken for a very long time. A number of years back, our forum's database got so big it broke and got corrupted. Mostly got fixed by Vain, I think, but search really doesn't like anything with large numbers of posts.

It's also why you'll sometimes find posts dated 1970.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

On a more serious note, though, I know u. and Ananda have tried to kick me into posting in the Tank... Yet still I cannot shake away the feeling of coming from a different galaxy both regarding culture and values (well...some of that got spilled out in the fest...neopagan, very close non-straight friends (I remember ali's eyebrows shot up to her hairline at that , etc. I've mentioned it before that it's extremely America-centric; names and laws and corporations I can relate to as well as a starfish to bicycle riding flashing past. And afraid I have neither time nor interest to start learning the politics and governing hierarchy of a different continent from scratch, while my own country wallows in a wealth of problems of its own and has one of its worst governments in its entire history.

So, to promote that corner successfully try to make it less homogenic, more international, and, yes, softer (I'm not interested in getting called an idiot for believing in some harmless matter X. That's an instant turn-off and just immature.) So what's there at the moment I might be able to give an opinion on? Ananda's article about Icelandic elves, and perhaps post that Tom of Finland stamp news as it was already in English. (I'm behind with the whole Ukraine development.) You cannot use Google Translate successfully on Helsingin Sanomat. It just...cannot grasp the language sans butchering all meaning.

How can it stop being so U. S. - centric if people not from the United States don't speak their minds there, may I ask?

What is there upon which you may comment? Forget the national politics and we still have threads on Israel, Islam, the future of humanity in the face of increasing automation, a couple of threads about economics, homosexual rights, and poverty, all things which effect every country.

The Tank isn't what you think it is. Have I given you any negative feedback or bad advice up to this point? Join us. Everyone should join us because everyone has an opinion worth hearing.

[I'm Murrin]

I really didn't expect someone to just take my suggestions and run with them, but I think the changes are generally positive. Maybe some folks will have pushback about the General SRD forum? I didn't see much reaction to that suggestion (and right now the merged forum does need tidying up).

The one issue I have with the changes is that the Revelstone section is very long. I also kind of agree with what TheFallen said about the Galley being out of place there.

But don't mind me too much - really I'm more interested in seeing other people's responses right now.

[Vraith]

Not sure what the problem with search is?

-jay

I don't exactly either. I just seached you, got this post and your recent all in good order.
But the results for me are that my last post was over a month ago.
Avatar last posted in 2011, null in 2010, Aliantha in 2012. But Ananda is just fine.

If I search keywords and such results SEEM ok, right now [has recent results for all the people I author searched].

So it seems something funny with author search...but only some authors.
And I really don't know enough to diagnose...all I can tell for sure is some authors posts don't show up.

[kevinswatch]

I really didn't expect someone to just take my suggestions and run with them

Dude, that's like my only job here. Taking ideas and running with them.

Seemed like good enough suggestions to me.

I agree it could use some more tinkering, but I need to get back to actual work for now.

More suggestions welcome. This is still a work in progress. Feel free to comment on the changes thus far.

-jay

[kevinswatch]

I've been crunching some numbers, and I think it's irrefutable now what the cause is of the Watch's decline:

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/album_pic.php?pic_id=2227

-jay

[wayfriend]

You and some others may use the posts since last visit. Not everyone does. A newcomer certainly won't, and so many forum to choose from can be overwhelming. Also, it tends to make conversation more difficult, as the conversation is taking place in too many places and fewer people may participate in a given conversation as a result. At least, that's my experience.

That's precisely my point. People don't use the function that makes finding current conversations in forums simple, and then they complain that it's too hard to find conversations. And then, rather than change how they do things, they'd rather change the whole universe.

It's like not wanting to use a search engine to find things on the internet, but wanting rather to put the whole internet into three web sites ... so you can find things.

Well, as long as we keep Gap and Mordant, I am fine.

I've been crunching some numbers, and I think it's irrefutable now what the cause is of the Watch's decline

That's actually pretty interesting. Apparently the whole site was sustained by new posts complaining about Linden Avery.

But seriously, there are some interesting ways to interpret that. One is that the decline coincides with the Great Recession here in the US.

[aliantha]

Okay, I've put out most of the fires here at work, and the others are on a slow burn, so....

Can we merge Announcements and Q&A? They seem to me like they serve the same sort of function.

One "Group Readings" forum sounds like a winner, if we can't move the dissections to their respective subforums and still have the orange dots show. (I'm an orange-dot-tree person. )

Happy to have GenDisc be the home for E'fest-related info, as people always seem to be confused about where to find that stuff.

Do we need to keep Haven Farm? When's the last time anyone posted a link there? I think most of the time these days, links end up in GenDisc or some other forum.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

How can it stop being so U. S. - centric if people not from the United States don't speak their minds there, may I ask?

What is there upon which you may comment? Forget the national politics and we still have threads on Israel, Islam, the future of humanity in the face of increasing automation, a couple of threads about economics, homosexual rights, and poverty, all things which effect every country.

The Tank isn't what you think it is. Have I given you any negative feedback or bad advice up to this point? Join us. Everyone should join us because everyone has an opinion worth hearing.

I was away for over half a year from here, and apparently in the meantime the Tank ended into Hashi's cunning fingers. (I swear this is some complex coefficient of the world domination plot matrix of yours, put cannot place my blunt thumb on it... ) Before, it at least used to resemble the Lurker's domain.

Touko Laaksonen aka Tom of Finland (Santa Fe crew will remember me mentioning "exaggerated muscles and...bits") would be all about gay culture and rights; he shaped some of the iconic stereotypes with his artwork. Itella (local mail company) will publish some stamps in September to commemorate him. In itself, that would state something about the prevailing attitude of the country towards sexual equality.

Afraid I don't know much about Israel. It's still just a handful of threads...like ali mentioned, maybe the US folks could start more of those general/global interest discussions.
I'll think about it. The schemy Ananda already caused a few posts to appear.

[Ananda]

Surely Mallorys should be on a top level? It has way more activity than many of the other forums.

[aliantha]

Yeah, we should put Mallory's up there. I guess.

Avatar last posted in 2011, null in 2010, Aliantha in 2012.

Sssh! I haven't actually been here since 2012. Nobody was supposed to notice!

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I was away for over half a year from here, and apparently in the meantime the Tank ended into Hashi's cunning fingers. (I swear this is some complex coefficient of the world domination plot matrix of yours, put cannot place my blunt thumb on it... )

No, it isn't world domination; rather, I am just trying to get some Giantesses to show up. Personal preference. 'nuff said.

[MsMary]

That's precisely my point. People don't use the function that makes finding current conversations in forums simple, and then they complain that it's too hard to find conversations. And then, rather than change how they do things, they'd rather change the whole universe.

Hmm...I think you may be missing my point. There's actually two points in my comments:

- A newcomer won't use that function. They come to the board and look at an overview of what's available. Some old timers don't use that function because they prefer not to. I am one of those old timers. i like to come to the board and see where there have been new comments. I am able to see where there are new posts easily, so I am not complaining about conversations being hard to find. That's not my point at all, when I talk about wishing to have fewer forums.

Which brings me to point two:

- The point is not that conversations are hard to find but that they are too spread out over the board. So we are all interacting with each other less than we might because there are so many places to post. And not all of us are interested in looking at all the forums and subforums every time we check the board.

The point of condensing forums, in my mind, is to have a better conversation among ourselves, instead of having one conversation over here, and another almost identical conversation over there.

Hoping that is clearer.

[I'm Murrin]

Wayfriend might not get your second point, however, because the function he uses basically negates any sorting that having separate forums provides, leaving him with what might as well be one big forum containing every topic. (The only difference is that it filters out ones that don't have new replies, instead of just listing them at the bottom.)

But then again given the above I have no idea why he'd object to reducing the number of forums anyway.

[MsMary]

Well, your explanation of why he might not get my second point makes sense, anyway.

[aTOMiC]

After posting on the Watch for 3975 days I've got to admit that I'm pretty tired.

All kidding aside I am sorry to see the site in decline (if that is what is really happening).

In the early days KW was the first and only message board I had ever participated in and it was quite a lot of fun. I discovered this place, much like many of you, while searching for information on a rumor I heard that SRD was thinking about writing a 3rd Chronicles of TC. When I found the Watch my search ended and I found a community of like minded souls that were interesting, friendly, forgiving and supportive. I found engaging conversations of all things Donaldson who was and continues to be my favorite author (even though Linden Avery sucks!). I'm sorry about that last bit. (no I'm not).

I will always cherish the time I have spent here. I had a great time conversing about the more obscure points of the Chrons. I loved the spam posting word games but most of all I really had a blast working on the Kevin's Watch Anthology books. However something has changed that I cannot ignore. I simply don't have the same interest in the Watch that I used to. Perhaps it has to do with the Last Chrons reaching its conclusion. Perhaps the Watch has become a less playful place than it used to be. The Tank seems to soak up all of the colorful fun and much more frequently dispenses serious discussion and sometimes genuine conflict which I have never had time for. That's not a criticism but an observation. I'm one of those people that is always seeking out amusement not discussion of the critical topics of the day. I'm just not that guy so you rarely if ever find a post from me in the midst of a political debate.

I don't have any plans to abandon KW. I drop by from time to time just to see what's up but I don't find the sheer joy I used to experience here in the past and perhaps that says something about the topic of this thread.

Streamlining the forums is probably a good idea and worth the time and effort but I think there's something fundamental about the heart of the Watch and what it means to us all that might be more at the root of the problem.

And now I'm totally bummed out. I'll be back later.

[MsMary]

Can we merge Announcements and Q&A? They seem to me like they serve the same sort of function.

One "Group Readings" forum sounds like a winner, if we can't move the dissections to their respective subforums and still have the orange dots show. (I'm an orange-dot-tree person. )

Happy to have GenDisc be the home for E'fest-related info, as people always seem to be confused about where to find that stuff.

Do we need to keep Haven Farm? When's the last time anyone posted a link there? I think most of the time these days, links end up in GenDisc or some other forum.

These seem like good suggestions.

You're right that Haven Farm is sort of dead. Anywhere else we can stick it? Or do we want to get rid of it? I haven't looked lately, are all the links there still active?