The Last Chronicles - worth it?

[DrPaul]

How's this for a consideration?

The difference between The First and Second Chronicles and how we read them, and The Last Chronicles and how we read them, is a combination of SRD being 20-30 years older and many of us (including myself) being 20-30 years older when The Last Chronicles were published.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

We ought to encourage michaelm and other newcomers to get acquainted with any stories written by SRD, not to mention coax to participate in areas of the Watch that might not be our typical horn of mead. Think it was easy for me to pick up the LC's three years back in a crossfire of negativity WHILE at the same time struggling with the difficult vocabulary as a non-native English speaker?

My main beef is that among the writings of a few of those who were disappointed there has been the implication that those of us who did like the Last Chronicles were deficient in our ability to evaluate what we were reading. There have been endless discussions on all aspects of this elsewhere.

Yeah, well, I'm not advocating for an uniform and obligatory worship of the LC's either; people are entitled to their critique, but it's not much fun to read someone describing one's favorite moments occasionally requiring the consuming of half a wad of tissues with expressions like "bullshit". That implies a lot. Yay, I apparently love excrement.

Frosty, you've lost your "t". You're "Frosy"! Nice ponies.

Aye, but I am still in possession of a sufficient coffee supply!
That was Squashy's Freudian slip on the FinnoGael-fest thread. After gagging and spluttering on the variant for a while, it began to grow on me for some inexplicable reason. Better than the abominable Softy in any event. Or Mjukhjärta Blomklänning. By the blood-whetted edge of my glaive, what nonsense!

[michaelm]

I'm acquainted with the Mordant's Need books, but in all honesty I didn't like them much. I haven't read any of his other series, but love the first and second chronicles which is why I asked about the final chronicles (particularly considering public reviews, etc. that are in some cases critical of the final books).

[Frostheart Grueburn]

My phone ate my reply. Will explain more about my (positive) experience while sitting at a proper machine. Now time for sauvakävely.

[wayfriend]

Z, I understand your reaction. I think to characterise people's reaction to the LCs as 'sadistic' (especially in a thread where the OP specifically mentions 'trepidation' regarding them)

A Sophist Troll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, ...
-- Field Guide to Trolls

[aliantha]

Z, I understand your reaction. I think to characterise people's reaction to the LCs as 'sadistic' (especially in a thread where the OP specifically mentions 'trepidation' regarding them)

A Sophist Troll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, ...
-- Field Guide to Trolls

Okay, enough. Z's not a troll. He's entitled to his opinion about the books.

The idea behind this forum was to discuss overarching themes across the whole Chrons. Maybe I should move this thread...

[lorin]

Maybe I should move this thread...

Or lock it.

It's unproductive, belittling and just plain embarrassing.

[aliantha]

Nah, I'm gonna leave it for now. But I put up a sticky with the forum rules.

[michaelm]

I'm glad of the posts to be honest, as it's given me a wide range of reactions to them. I don't know I was really looking for one comment or another, but just wanted to see what people who had read the same books as me thought of the ones that I haven't read.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

I'm acquainted with the Mordant's Need books, but in all honesty I didn't like them much. I haven't read any of his other series, but love the first and second chronicles which is why I asked about the final chronicles (particularly considering public reviews, etc. that are in some cases critical of the final books).

MN is much softer than Covenant, not throwing you into the same emotional rollercoaster. The Gap's difficult to wade into due to its bleak atmosphere and incredible brutality, but once the first two books sit in the shelf of the past, the story begins to evolve. Highly recommended, esp. if you're a Wagner fan.

The LCs do feel different than the first six books; they lack the brilliant editing of DelRey, and the pacing suffers from time to time, but I grew to love them. During my dissections of TLD (I've done four chapters so far, missed one of my favorites due to getting sick), I've repeatedly uncovered new layers of complexity within the narrative. Overall, they're very philosophical and grasp difficult themes from the purpose of existence to redemption. Not one's regular fantasy adventure of goody-goody heroes saving the world. Some readers have a problem with Linden. Well, she can annoy the audiences, but then I again I wanted to slap Covenant every two seconds while plodding through the 1st Chrons.

When you begin the perusal, why not start a reading thread where you can add your thoughts along the way? Some of us have done those. Also I hope you'd join us in the Dissections (and maybe even the Gallery to muse over the looks of some of the characters); also they span the 1st and 2nd Chronicles. Some of those chapter analyses are just wonderful additions to the story arch.

[michaelm]

When you begin the perusal, why not start a reading thread where you can add your thoughts along the way? Some of us have done those.

That's not a bad idea. I'm sure I'll have opinions

[peter]

Ok [damn - this is the fourth start I've made at this, I so need to get it right] - for me the question would always have been a moot one from day one. There was never any question for me that I would read the last Chrons right up to the final word, even if I had hated them 100 times more than I did [and I didn't hate them at all; it's just a way of putting it.] Hellfire [ ] these were TC novels for God's sake! They had shaped my life, built my friendships, ordered my young mind and decided for me who I wanted 'me' to be [Bannor - who else!] At what point was I ever....ever...not going to read the last Chrons?

Some Watchers have considered TLC SRD's finest achievement, others have thrown the books aside early in the series and refused to pick up the later ones. No matter. All these reactions are just faces of the same love of the Chrons.

Reactions have run high on this, but michaelm asked the question and had every right to so so - and he deserves a response. I hadn't realised that my above answer would be as difficult to understand, or would be seen as any where as negative as it was percieved [and God knows, Wayfriend knows I am not a sadist as much as Io knows I'm not a cynic, so there are no worries there]. Just to try to explain why I find that TLC colours my feeling toward the chrons as a whole. The difference is perhaps akin to that between the wonderfull partner who you spend twenty years of happiness with who then goes away by dying, or goes away by running off with the neighbour. [nb V.'s point re the series' being self-contained remains absolutely valid and I can't really answer it better than I've tried to here] The end will color the whole; thats as close as I can get. So yes, I wish TLC had never been written [in my universe] but having been so there was no course for me [and still would not have been even in the face of horrendous reception from my peers on the Watch] but to take up the mantle and see the series through to it's end.

I'm not sure that our opinions are really going to affect michaelm's enjoyment of TLC one way or the other. Plenty of us had voiced our negative reception of TLC after even only a couple of books and I see no evidence that it ever changed the way that other Watchers percieved the latter works. Those who will enjoy, will enjoy; SRD is sufficiently a powerfull writer that enjoyment or otherwise of his works will rest in the works themselves and not in the peripheral commentary pertaining to them. Anyway - could it not just as easily be argued that by 'lowering the bar' of expectation the ultimate response of the reader may even be enhanced [I don't think I believe this either re books, but it has happened to me in respect of films I think].

So michaelm, read on - you know you've got no choice; I'm offering 6 to 4 on the books, who wants it?

[michaelm]

I'm not sure that our opinions are really going to affect michaelm's enjoyment of TLC one way or the other.

Nope. I don't ever take any criticism to a book and let it ruin my enjoyment of it. I asked the question more as an exercise is seeing if I got an overwhelming yes (which I expected) or an overwhelming no (which might have influenced me), but it's always interesting to see individual reasoning around a subject.

So michaelm, read on - you know you've got no choice; I'm offering 6 to 4 on the books, who wants it?

I don't think anyone's going to take that bet...

[peter]

Seriously michaelm, good luck with TLC - I'm hoping that the pages fall just right for you as they have for many others.

[TheFallen]

My main beef is that among the writings of a few of those who were disappointed there has been the implication that those of us who did like the Last Chronicles were deficient in our ability to evaluate what we were reading. There have been endless discussions on all aspects of this elsewhere.

Really???

As someone who was heartily "disappointed" by the Last Chrons - for reasons I've expressed elsewhere and so shan't bother doing so in detail here again - all I've ever noticed and indeed directly experienced in other threads too numerous to count is the exact reverse of what Io refers to above, namely incessant howls of patronising derision and arrogantly aggressive insult from one or two ardent fans of the LCs claiming that those of us who have issues with them are just too close-minded, ill-educated or otherwise ignorant to "get" them.

I'm certainly not one to say that my opinion is right (although it's "right" for me) and that therefore anyone disagreeing with me is a f***wit - if only that were true for one or two others. To put it another way, you'll have heard the expression "Opinions are like assholes - everyone's got one", right? Well in my mind, when it comes to opinions and judgements about literature, anyone claiming that only *their* opinion is rightful and genuine can only actually (and unwittingly) be saying that they're therefore a rightful and genuine asshole.

But never mind about all that. Me? I'm actually and sincerely pleased for those who've been delighted by the LCs. Let's face it, I'd rather have been, for sure. However, I'd just be lying to myself (and everyone else) if I pretended I were.

Okay, so I'm personally irritated by the LCs - primarily from a narrative viewpoint - but so what? That's just my personal opinion. Other opinions are available, and especially yours, michaelm. It'll be equally as valid as anyone else's and importantly the most valid, when it comes to having relevance to yourself.

So, I'd absolutely NOT recommend that you avoid reading the LCs - that'd seem silly. By all means, read 'em and come to your own conclusions. Even I don't think they're all bad - what I think SRD has to say on the symbolic/metaphysical level is indeed interesting from a purely intellectual point of view. I just wish he'd taken as much care as he used to with the narrative vehicle for his allegory, because it pretty much entirely failed to emotionally engage me (which IMHO is the prime crucial requisite for successful allegory, or it'll simply feel like sermonising polemic way too thinly veiled and thus visibly obvious, fronted by what comes across as no more than a mere throw-away paper puppet show).

However, as I always say, vive la différence - reaction to art is inevitably going to be both subjective and personal and therefore opinions and judgements upon such are nature-bound to differ - and possibly wildly. So, go to it, and as someone's already suggested, why not start an ongoing thread as to how you're finding them?

[aliantha]

Clearly, as I've said, the LC got under people's skins, for one reason or another.

Some Watchers have considered TLC SRD's finest achievement, others have thrown the books aside early in the series and refused to pick up the later ones. No matter. All these reactions are just faces of the same love of the Chrons.

As good a summation of the situation as any I've read.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

In spite of being "heartily disappointed" by the Last Chrons, TheFallen yet likes to

Spoiler

ogle at bathing Giantesses akin to Hashi, stroll in the Care Bears -riddled Andelain to catch a glimpse of the sexy Infelice, and write hawt ficcies about a fan-character of his getting carried hither and thither in the gentle care of Onyx Stonemage beneath the turmoils of the Götterdämmerung. For some reason she also has reduced her clothing to a bootlace and two bottlecaps instead of full granite armor.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

You already had my attention, Frosty.

[wayfriend]

Spoiler

bathing Giantesses akin to Hashi

Now there's a mental image you don't want to have.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

That depends entirely upon your point of view. There are some things I could watch all day but I do not qualify as something anyone should watch for even a few minutes.