Male escorts and female sexuality

[Ananda]

I was reading this article about how women using male prostitutes is becoming a new market.
aeon.co/magazine/society/women-who-hire-escorts-are-no-different-to-men/

What do you thinks about it? Would you go to one?

I think the whole 'boyfriend experience' thing is funny. Such a difference for what you typically think of with prostitution where men are the main consumer. It says kissing is expected whereas female prostitutes charge extra for kissing.

Would I see one? Well, if I were single and could afford it (they seem to charge huge amounts of money- 500 australian dollars per hour with a minimum amount of hours), maybe... I think it could be fun. Anything at least once.

The women interviewed seem interested in an easy no strings relationship, but with at least the facade of an emotional experience.

In general, I think prostitutes, both male and female, provide a very good service for society.

[peter]

I've never had any gripe with prostitution, male or female, other than the tendancy for it to ensnare those most vulnerable and at risk of exploitation in our societies and the resultant draw it presents to the most criminal and exploitative elements as a means of income. Taken as an arrangement between two people, with no coercion involved, with minimal risk and mutual bennefit there is little to argue against it - if ony it were that simple.

In respect of male prostitutes providing for the same needs in ladies as female ones have in men, no problem.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Eääh...as long as it's not forced, human trafficking, etc. I'm not going to start telling people what they should and should not do with their own wares.

Try it myself? No. I suppose I nurture an ounce of old-fashionableness or some saccharine schmaltz-attitude behind the front of Love and Tolerate and earthy humor. When it comes to my own system*, I know I wouldn't receive any sort of happiness from casual hide-the-sausage-and-farewell experiences or one-night stands. To me, lovemaking's one node in a more complex mesh of friendship and tenderness. Others are entitled to see this differently and, again, free to do as they will.

*YMMV

[Cagliostro]

If you are interested, Ananda, may I present the following:

Fred Garvin

[sgt.null]

except prostitution is exploitation. it is degrading of the human spirit/soul. rife with physical/emotional/sexual abuse.

would anyone here want their child/sister/etc to be a prostitute. is this advancing the human race? do we really want to tell young girls their only worth is for someone's gratification?

[Ananda]

In the case of desperate street prostitutes and cartel workers, you are right about exploitation. It is why it should be fully legal and monitored.

I have known two people who were sex workers by choice. Both enjoyed the work. There are many people like that. If my child wants to become a gigilo, then cool for him. Sex is not degrading, dirty or wrong.

[Cagliostro]

Yeah, and better'n givin' it away for free!

[peter]

If my child wants to become a gigilo, then cool for him. Sex is not degrading, dirty or wrong.

Say it was your daughter Ananda?

[Dondarion]

Sgt. Null wrote:

It is degrading of the human sprit/soul.

Hear, hear! No disrespect intended, but I almost can't believe this post is serious. To think our civilization would ever condone such activity is beyond my understanding. Every person yearns for love and acceptance, and unfortunaltely some want to believe they can find it this way. They are misguided and in the end will be unfulfilled and the worse for it. "No strings"? That's the problem. Life comes with strings, that's what it's all about. Humans are spiritual beings first, not merely physical beings. It's selfishness to invite this behavior as a means of satisfying a need that is much deeper than mere immediate gratification. We need to call these dangerous notions out for what they are, and not simply accept them under the relativistic philosophy that so wrongly pervades this day and age.

[Fist and Faith]

I also can't believe the post is serious. Not because of the degradation, but because women paying for sex is the most ridiculous thing in the world.

[Vraith]

And lets get rid of those other dangerous notions, too, like women being able to vote, or get a job, or learn to read.
And what's with all this domestic violence crap, and marital rape?
It's their spiritual purpose to obey, and shut up and take what's coming to them.

Anyway, I have a big problem with prostitution when the provider can't/doesn't choose the job.

I have a personal distaste for it...it's a bias, I admit it.
I also find it funny/odd that people would WANT to pay for it. It kinda defeats the purpose/takes the fun out of playing the game, to me. Kinda like paying someone to play tennis with you. Why bother?

But I don't think we have the right to stop people.

[Dondarion]

Unfortunately, it's all too common these days to take a statement like it being dangerous (to societal and spiritual well being) to suggest that prostitution is okay, and somehow extend its meaning to the preposterous suggestion that this is somehow akin to challenging fundamental rights and human decency. I mean, first, we allow a challenge to the morality of something like prostitution, and the next thing you know, we'll want to regulate the use of marijuana, cocaine and LSD. Geesh!

And last I checked, prostitution was illegal except for certain sectios of Las Vegas, so I guess we do have the right to stop the practice. And while we're on the topic of rights, I have a right to choose to sit in a bar all day and drink myself to oblivion, lose my job, and allow myself to fall apart because of an addiction. But we shouldn't have any notions on whether that's right or wrong, should we? The heck with the good of the person, or dare one suggest, his "spiritual" well being. It's all relative, whatever feels right, it's their right, right? Where has that thinking gotten our country of late? Has anyone been watching?

[peter]

Casual sex between consenting adults is [and probably always has been] part of the world we live in. The lines between what does and what does not constitute prostitution are so blurred when you actually try to nail it down as to be meaningless. Say a guy takes a girl out for dinner and buys her a diamond necklace and she sleeps with him? Is she a prostitute? Saying he's old and rich and she's young and poor and she marries him because they both like what each other can provide. Is she a prostitute? Degradation only comes into these arrangements when other people impose it upon them - not as a result of the participants who might be [and have every right to be] entierly comfortable with the arrangements, however casual they might be.

[Ananda]

If my child wants to become a gigilo, then cool for him. Sex is not degrading, dirty or wrong.

Say it was your daughter Ananda?

I'm not sure I do understand the question. Is there a difference?

I guess this is that thinking that leads sexually active men to be studs and sexually active girls to be sluts? I don't know if you read the article or not, but they reference a study that shows that women are just as if not more sexually aroused by visuals as men. Women have a sex drive, too. There are just social norms that likes to repress female sexuality in many cultures.

But, on my child becoming a prostitute, it is not something I dream of him becoming. I won't throw a party. But, if the situation is all agreeable and consensual, then it is a job. Beside, there are worse jobs out there.

For jobs that can 'damage' emotionally (not in all cases, of course, but *can*), how about
soldier
police
slaughterhouse worker
the people who sort newborn male and female chickens and throw the males into a grinder ALIVE
prison guard
any job where you deal with the worst element of a segment in some way so that's all you see after a time

Is the topic a joke? Well, I thought it was a fun article. But, these women are going to these male escort services. It is real. I read about a similarly growing trend in other places, too.

Dondarion, which country are you talking bout? I don't subscribe to 'moral decay' arguments for any place, really, but I am from sweden and the article is about people in australia.

[Vraith]

Unfortunately, it's all too common these days to take a statement like it being dangerous (to societal and spiritual well being) to suggest that prostitution is okay, and somehow extend its meaning

The heck with the good of the person, or dare one suggest, his "spiritual" well being. It's all relative, whatever feels right, it's their right, right? Where has that thinking gotten our country of late? Has anyone been watching?

Unfortunately, it has been too common through almost all of history for people to think "they," whoever they may be, have the right to define what things are moral issues, decide [for everyone] which is good, and extend those things however they want, by force if necessary.

The heck with a persons right to choose. And how dare one assume s/he might have some role in his/her own spirituality and well-being.
There isn't anything that is innately spiritual simply because it is what it is.
There are very few things that are as fully individual as the spiritual, the experience of the "divine."
Other people don't get to decide what it is, and cannot force people to experience it.
Not everyone finds sex to be spiritual...not even everyone who really loves it as an activity. Some people find their spiritual being through a walk in the woods or rock climbing, or understanding a new equation, or 24 hours of riding the subway, or reading Heidegger at the Albright-Knox gallery, or almost anything.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

I guess this is that thinking that leads sexually active men to be studs and sexually active girls to be sluts? I don't know if you read the article or not, but they reference a study that shows that women are just as if not more sexually aroused by visuals as men. Women have a sex drive, too. There are just social norms that likes to repress female sexuality in many cultures.

The repression of female sexuality mostly came as a by-product of christianity; now it's islam attempting the same. Sin and abomination and all that. Of course women have their drive and a strong necessity to fantasize besides, plus it's important to keep the beaver pleased for one's well-being.

[Dondarion]

Sorry, but that's all just all rationaalization and relativistic bunk. Truth is truth, you can't massage it away. I speak a case for human dignity, and others call it "deciding what is good" and "forcing" it on everyone else. Is the world going insane? It's all a matter of choice. There is no forcing. But there is still one truth, a trith which upholds human dignity and grace, not whatever fits the mood of the day. What is wrong with speaking out for that? Our sense of morality has gone down the crapper. Ask yourself how you would feel if it were your own daughter, reflect on your little girl with her great big eyes looking up at you when she was young, and trusting you, and how your heart bursts when you just think of those days, and then try and picture her now in the role you are condoning or at least being indifferent about. Of course we are all individuals with individual choices. But there are universal truths, unchangning, reliable. And one is that the human heart needs love, real love, sacrificial love. I will always choose to speak out against whatever may tend to cheapen that notion.

[Vraith]

But there are universal truths, unchangning, reliable.

There are? In morality?
You seem pretty sure. Enjoy it.

A "case for dignity" is explaining to people with the best reasons you can muster why the issue is a problem. And then leaving them the hell alone to get on with their lives.
A law against it IS forcing, no matter your rationalizations and absolutist bunk.

I agree real love is important to people...though I don't think sacrificial is necessary...real love hates sacrifices, even if it recognizes the occasional necessity for it.
But just cuz love is great and grand, that doesn't say anything about why you, or us, or anyone, can or should make sex for money illegal.

[Ananda]

I guess this is that thinking that leads sexually active men to be studs and sexually active girls to be sluts? I don't know if you read the article or not, but they reference a study that shows that women are just as if not more sexually aroused by visuals as men. Women have a sex drive, too. There are just social norms that likes to repress female sexuality in many cultures.

The repression of female sexuality mostly came as a by-product of christianity; now it's islam attempting the same. Sin and abomination and all that. Of course women have their drive and a strong necessity to fantasize besides, plus it's important to keep the beaver pleased for one's well-being.

Precis. Female sexuality is there, repressed or not. How else could a piece of literary trash like Shade of Grey be a massive best seller? Mummy porn is in demand for a reason.

And, sex workers do provide a valuable service to the community, in my opinion. I guess that is why it is called the worlds oldest profession. If they are willing and able to do it, then why not? Just quickly, here are some people who can and do benefits from legalised sex work because they have needs/desires.

retarded people unable to find a partner
people with social anxieties unable to find a partner
people with unusual fetishes, fantasies and so and unable to find a partner (or have a partner who won't do it!)
disabled people unable to find a partner
disfigured people unable to find a partner
unattractive or obese people unable to find a partner
etc

If the sex worker is in the profession willingly, then they actually can provide something really nice to people who would not have it otherwise. Think about a retarded child growing into a man. He still has the desires, the urges. How shitty would it be for him to go through life without ever having sex? If he is able to consent and desire something like that, why not? And the hunched girl in the wheelchair... should she not be able to find even a moment of intimate human touch in her life? Maybe... maybe they find a partner on their own, but maybe they never do. Imagine going through life never knowing that sort of intimacy, but wanting it!

We have a really stupid situation here with prostitution. It is legal to be a sex worker, but it is illegal to buy the time of one... so, they can say prostitution is legal, but it is still illegal.

I think Vraith covered the moral absolutism pretty well.

On the topic of love...

I think sex without love is just as nice as sex with love. Most wants love, whatever love is, but not all finds it. And, even in finding it, many find it fleeting.

Some of the best sex have I ever had was with a guy who was just a friend. We weren't in love. We had no relationship other than talking sometimes, going to dinner or dancing once in a while. There could be long periods where we barely spoke. We were friends, so maybe that helps, but there was no great love story there, just great sex when we were in the mood.

I also guess that (most) all of us have had one night liaisons that were quite agreeable. Forget love, this is a person you really didn't even know! And still, it is just fine.

Back to the topic of the article, I found it interesting that it mentioned that one of the clients would cry when it was time for her to end her weekend with the guy. That 'boyfriend experience' she bought really worked on her. Obviously, she wanted the fantasy she was buying to be real. Hope she gets her permanent fantasy, but, like many others in life, she may never find it. So, she gets her fulfilment the way she can.

It is funny to see the reaction to women using a sex worker service. As if women don't have desires, too.

[Fist and Faith]

I suspect the repression of female sexuality mostly came about because parents don't want to take care of the children that their young, still living at home daughters tend to have when they're sexually active. Obviously, the pregnancy is also the work of a guy. Often a teenage boy. But the baby doesn't usually live with the father.

Dondarion, nothing remotely wrong with speaking out for what you believe in. Who says you shouldn't? But others have the same freedom, so you're gonna have to hear them, too.

Ananda, the point isn't that women don't have desires. The point is that there's no need for them to pay to satisfy those desires. You - you personally, and nearly every woman - can have sex as often as you want, for free, with no string attached. Why on earth would you bother giving money to someone to do what you can do for free? If I bottle air, will you give me money for it so you can breath it?