Lost Season 4-There Will Be Spoilers

[lurch]

I really liked EggTown...The episode is aptly titled. The egg being a great metaphor for creativity..and look at the Illusions these characters create about them selves and project..and take notice of the consequences the characters suffer for the Illusions they project...Kate won't let her mother see her grandson,,cuz her mother will kno Aaron is not Kates..Can you feel the gordian knot pounding inside her head ? Kate has to shut up Jack on the stand,, becuase the weight of the bull crap is getting too much.

Locke has determined he is THE PROTECTOR OF THE ISLAND!!!.. Talk about bull crap,,well the great protector still gets conned by a 2 bit con artist, Sawyer.,,he he. Again,, when you buy the Illusion,, you become predictable and easily manipulated..Locke has bought the Illusion of himself..the great Protector..Since when does the Island need Protecting??

So in season 3 we saw Jack ask Point Blank,, Who Am I?..Now we have Kate asking,, Do You Know Who I Am?...and there is a major hint at the Compromise,, the something goes wrong about the rescue..To me,,Kate asking that question ,,is her first step into figuring out what Lie,, what Illusion of her self,, she should Project,, to get off the Island..The cost to her..has to refuse her Mother,,be refused by the man who loves her..give up her major element of her character, her ability to be free,,,well, okay,, physically free...What does she know about Love, Loving Aaron,,that she is okay with loosing her freedom?...Yea,,, Love is freedom...create from that.

[Ki]

Wonder what this means for Aaron, him being raised by Kate...didn't the psychic tell Claire that the baby needed to be raised by Claire and Claire only b/c her goodness would protect Aaron?

[Zarathustra]

Tonight's episode was the best Lost episode I've ever seen.

First of all, we finally see the moment when they get off the Island. We knew it had to happen, but tonight we saw that moment of transition.

And what a moment that was! We were set up to think that something freaky and sinister was waiting on the the freighter, and the moment the helicopter landed I was looking around for signs of something wrong. But it was Desmond . . . all along, it was going to be something character-driven. God I love this show. His story, and their reconnection, finally happened in one brilliant episode where the time discontinuity issue was made explicit. The moment of their reconnection was meaningful on so many levels, the sheer brilliance of the writing would have been enough to bring tears to my eyes. But the emotional weight that moment contained was more moving than anything else I've seen on this show--more tear-jerking than Charlie's demise or . . . I can't think of anything else that compares. We're watching a fucking novel unfold in visual form. This is TV's answer to Donaldson. What an amazing show.

Course correction. This issue has come up in the Fatal Revenant forum. We begin the episode with the helicopter being slightly off-course (31 degrees, whereas the rocket of the last episode took 31 minutes to arrive). And the entire episode was about Desmond correcting the course of his life. Obviously, he messed up with Penny. He's been trying to correct that for years. But his past self saved his future self . . . and perhaps more importantly, his future self saved his past self. He has undone a host of mistakes with one chaotic experience. And one phone call.

If this series is remember for nothing else, I hope it will be for this episode. I love Lost.

[sgt.null]

i agree - what a fantastic episode. heart breaking really. and the scientist - what is his name again? marking desmond as his constant? truly a wonderful episode.

[wayfriend]

Tonight's episode was the best Lost episode I've ever seen.

That's what I was going to say!!!! Well, it's in the top 3, for sure. The parallelism was profound.

I'm glad Desmond is turning out to be such a well drawn character. His insertion into the story might have left him a two-dimentional plot device.

I'm warming up to physicist guy. Daniel Faraday, btw. Now there's an omenous name!!!!

[I'm Murrin]

Very good ep, agreed. Another point about it is the way it also ties back to Desmond's previous time-jump, when the hatch detonation threw him back to when he and Penny were living together and almost got engaged. In that ep, he had to learn that he and Penny were supposed to break up, that it had to happen so that he could end up on the island and the other events could follow from that. And now we see that there was more purpose tied into it even than that: He had to leave Penny so that she could be waiting for him to call. Both time jumps, and what happened in those moments, were integral to ensuring the timeline played out the way it has in the show so far (Except for the significant fact that the first jump shouldn't have happened and involved preventing him from changing things, whereas the second required him to change things so that the future could happen correctly).


Edit: Oh, and I almost forgot after all the focus on Desmond's story. Penny's father bought the journal of a crewman on the Black Rock--and he bought it from the Hanso family, relatives of the man who started Dharma. Big clue leading towards the answer to why Penny knew about the island.

[Zarathustra]

Some interesting "coincidences" about the other guy on the boat who was displaced: Minkowski.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minkowski_space

In physics and mathematics, Minkowski space (or Minkowski spacetime) is the mathematical setting in which Einstein's theory of special relativity is most conveniently formulated. In this setting the three ordinary dimensions of space are combined with a single dimension of time to form a four-dimensional manifold for representing a spacetime. Minkowski space is named after the German mathematician Hermann Minkowski.

In theoretical physics, Minkowski space is often compared to Euclidean space. While a Euclidean space has only spacelike dimensions, a Minkowski space has also one timelike dimension. Therefore the symmetry group of a Euclidean space is the Euclidean group and for a Minkowski space it is the Poincaré group.

[I'm Murrin]

Yeah, nearly all the names on this show are significant.


Edit: have people here seen the Station 6 orientation video? Interesting viewing after this weeks ep made the time stuff explicit. Putting together the evidence from today's episode and this video, we can guess at what happened to Desmond when the hatch exploded: His consciousness was transported into the past, similarly but not identical to what happens to him in "The Constant" (he was not completely aware of his circumstances, and did not become fully "unstuck" in time), while his physical body was transported through space--and probably time as well, since both he and Locke were missing for half a day after the hatch exploded. And it is this event that causes him to be vulnerable to the displacement that occurs to people leaving the island.

[Kil Tyme]

The Desmond-centric eps are always the best of any Lost show the last couple of seasons. This was indeed a brillaint episode.

Interesting video re Station 6, Murrin. A bit of Time Travel hints in that one obviously. Some spliced in Hanso and Island scenes and a mysterious subliminal "God loves you as he loved Jacob" message.

[Ki]

Desmond is one of my favorite characters and I am always happy with the Desmond-centric episodes. Those never disappoint. But this one...Wow. It puts the Desmond-Penny relationship in a new light, and makes their love even more profound. I read once that Damon Lindelof said their love story was central to the entire story of Lost.

I cried, of course.

I'm liking Faraday more all the time too. I bet his background is interesting. It already is, actually!

[lurch]

Care to take it up a notch? I am in agreement with every thing said here, which is being said in most LOST chat and message boards....Yet, there is more, imho.

What is Constant?...Time is relative,,subjective.Time perception is relative,,was made clear in the episode .The speed of Light has been a Einstienian constant therefore a parameter of our existence,,yet it never came up in LOST..Something else did,,perhaps in its place...LOVE. The Constant of the episode is the mystical LOVE,,that transcends Time..brings clarity in the midst of chaos,,pulls one back from the brink of True Insanity,,and brings a Tear to a viewers cheek..That was the Constant,,a LOVE on the scale of a " God's" Love..

I say that based on the idea that A)...the judeo-christian God is based in being unfathomable,,therefore..B) the Son that God gave to Man involved a " LOVE" ,,for Man that He gave his only Son.. That IS A LOVE THAT IS HUGE,, and perhaps beyond comprehension by mere mortals...Jesus had access to this comprehension of LOVE.,,and was sacrificed before He could express fully all of it. His disciples didn't even grasp it. Mathew's gospel is the most pointed , but Blame It All On The Jews,,is a common sentiment thru the New Testament Gospels. Not alot of LOVE there.

I perceive, a very well crafted exploration of this Mystical LOVE going on in LOST..Yes,,the Dez/Penny phone call brings it all together... but the Bow on the Christmas Package ( no mistake the Eternal Love message on Christmas Eve,,rite?),,the kicker is in the last scene of Faraday,,sitting on the beach leafing thru his notes..and finding his message to himself..If things go wrong, Desmond is your constant..and the " AAH HAA!" realization by Faraday..Point Being..the Mystical qualities of a LOVE that Transcends Time is made comprehensible for the viewer to see. Not only do Dez and Penny find a new dimension to LOVE,,but in doing so,,Faraday is .." healed",,made right..brought back from the edges of insanity as well.

Andre Breton wrote of a eternal ..transcending,,nature of Man in Arcanum 17. Everything With Love is the key to understanding his perspective. When creating ones future..do it with a Love...that doesn't give hard answers,,but provides a Joy in the unexpected,, unknowable future,,and if one insists , perhaps the slightest understanding of,, a god perspective...the other side of the speed of light.,,will be yours.

[Kil Tyme]

FYI, a new Lost game:

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14708

[I'm Murrin]

I just watched the ep again on TV (apparently the gap between UK and US broadcast is shorter than I thought--only a few days), and it clicked in my head what was going on at the end there, why it worked, in a more specific sense than what I got from the first viewing. The rat died, as Faraday explained, because there was no reference frame, no way for her brain to know what was past and what was future, she was unstuck. Desmond had the same problem, and needed to find some way to "fix" things in his head. By both arranging and then fulfilling the promise to call Penny, he created events that were specific and fixed within both his past and future timelines, and significant enough to be meaningful, allowing his mind to relearn where each thread belonged in relation to the other, and restoring his equilibrium.

[wayfriend]

... I think he was saved by love

[danlo]

So no discussion yet of last night's episode with Juliette and the strangely appearing Hanna? I joked with my wife that Desperate Housewives has got nothing on "Othertown".

So next week we learn the identity of the sixth survivor--I'm missing someone: Jack, Kate, Shayid, Hurley...who the hell am I missing??? (Sawyer? Claire?)

[Cagliostro]

I must say that I'm enjoying this season so far, but it is going too damn fast. Then again, I was never one of the ones bitching that nothing was happening. I enjoyed the character interactions as they came.

I had some great theories on this one, but I forget.

[wayfriend]

Danlo, I think number 5 was Kate's child.

They "got me" in this episode. It was a flashback not a flashforward. I was thinking for a minute Juliette was one of the O6. Kudos to the writers that, when a guy, who I know was dead, is back in the show, I started wondering if they were revealing that the island could bring the dead back to life. I didn't figure out it was a flashback until they gave Juliette a house.

Question: is the big bad guy that Ben said owned the boat Penny's dad?

[I'm Murrin]

Yeah. We saw him buy a crewman's log from the Black Rock last week, too. Though we can't be sure of what Ben tells us (moral of this episode: never forget, Ben is a liar, and he almost always wins) we can at least believe Mr Widmore knows of and has some interest in the island.

[sgt.null]

the previews said the last survivor will be shown next week. a couple of trick outs this week like wf i thought julliete made it from the opening. and faraday/charlotte's real purpose was a fake out as well.

[I'm Murrin]

There wasn't much to this episode, really. A vehicle to explain to us Juliette's relationship with Ben, and getting Ben out of his cell so that they can move on with the plot.