Let's talk crossovers

[The Dreaming]

Batman doesn't lose. He just doesn't. It would be like Max vs. Blaster in Mad Max beyond Thunderdome. Yeah, Ironman's got all the power he needs, but he relies on it. Batman always defeats his opponents by outsmarting them, it's almost never with a simple brawl. Why would Tony Stark *prepare* to fight Batman? He's frigging iron man! Batman is also willing to do just about anything to win. He is definitely a "ends justify the means* character. When it comes down to it, he's just kind of a dick.

(Keep in mind, this is all tongue-in-cheek. I don't want to have an all out geek war on my hands!)

[aTOMiC]

I agree with all your comments dAN. What a shock!

These exercises are fairly pointless but it's always kind of amusing to read or hear what fans have to say in defense of their favorite fictional character. Myself included.

In my opinion we're talking apples and oranges.

Batman and Ironman? It's patently unfair to make that kind of comparison.

What would be fair would be Batman and Daredevil or Batman and Captain America (without the secret soldier syrup) or Batman and Hawkeye or Batman and The Punisher.
Pick any normal kind of dude with a costume to pit against Batman and you are finally talking apples and apples.

[___]

And then there's Iron Man's Extremist capabilities. Without them, he was capable of beating the Hulk.

Oh, you did NOT just say that......

[dANdeLION]

Take it up with the dude who wrote Iron Man #s 131 & 132, if you have a problem with my comments.

[sgt.null]

great summation dAN!

as to the Hulk vs Iron Man - why haven't Tony and Reed come up with a Hulk solution yet? are they just holding back?

[dANdeLION]

They came up with a solution; they shot the Hulk off into another universe, where he was more vulnerable. He found himself a slave, fighting in arenas, sort of like ancient Greece or Rome, and he literally fought his way to the top, and ended up being the king of the planet. Then the spaceship he came in on blew up, killing just about everybody in his kingdon. All evidence pointed to Reed and Tony, so Hulk came back to earth for revenge.

[sgt.null]

dAN : i was thinking of something a bit better than sweeping the Hulk under the rug. either removing the gamma radiation from Bruce or something to kill him.

of course Reed has never cured Ben Grimm...

[dANdeLION]

The closest anybody got to curing the Hulk was Dr. Samson when Peter David was writing the book, and the fans apparently didn't like it (though I for one loved it), so Marvel fired David and put the Hulk back somewhat how he was. When John Byrne was writing the FF, Franklin Richards had the power to cure Ben, but realized that deep down Ben was happier as the Thing, so he didn't fix him. Chances are that Reed was also aware of it on some level, and that probably affected his search for a cure.

[sgt.null]

so what was the cure for the Hulk?

maybe Reed could give Ben powers that didn't make him a monster?

[dANdeLION]

Psychotherapy, with hypnosis thrown in, courtesy of the Ringmaster.

[Baradakas]

Well, after watching the Iron Man movie, it is now patently obvious that Batman COULD defeat him.

MOVIE SPOILER

Spoiler

Just walk up behind ol' Tony, use some stupid noisemaker, and Tony is PARALYZED. Bat-star to the neck, no more Tony.

Sorry folks, but as a writer, I could come up with about a thousand scenarios where Bats could take Iron Man, or where Ant-man could take Lobo, or a plethora of other Vs. concepts.

Mainly because Tony Stark is a normal human being with a heart condition, I can conceive dozens of ways to kill him without Bats even needing to put on a costume! So please, lets all admit how silly this is before I am forced to writing fanfics.

-B

[sgt.null]

suspension of disbelief baradakas.

and i could write a scenerio where Too-Much Coffee Man takes of the Entire Legion of Superheroes. does not mean it would be a good story.

and your scenerios involving Bats knowing Stark is Iron Man, knowing about the heart condition, getting through Stark's defaults.

[aTOMiC]

Well, after watching the Iron Man movie, it is now patently obvious that Batman COULD defeat him.

MOVIE SPOILER

Spoiler

Just walk up behind ol' Tony, use some stupid noisemaker, and Tony is PARALYZED. Bat-star to the neck, no more Tony.

Sorry folks, but as a writer, I could come up with about a thousand scenarios where Bats could take Iron Man, or where Ant-man could take Lobo, or a plethora of other Vs. concepts.

Mainly because Tony Stark is a normal human being with a heart condition, I can conceive dozens of ways to kill him without Bats even needing to put on a costume! So please, lets all admit how silly this is before I am forced to writing fanfics.

-B

I hate to be the one to break it to you but "Bats" is a normal human being 24/7. Nobody said anything about a battle where each man sneaks into the other's bedroom while he sleeps and offs him with an ordinary butter knife. That isn't the discussion. You get that on CSI every night. We're talking super heroes here not "I think Batman could kill Tony Stark as a baby and soundly defeat Iron man in the process."

[dANdeLION]

I find it interesting that Batman fans have no moral issues with Batman killing babies that would otherwise grow up to be heroes.

[aTOMiC]

"What frightens you so, Stark? Have you become such a bleeding heart that you don’t have the stomach to do what is required? What is just? In the daylight of my normal life, in my business, I buy and sell little tin cots like you every day. Don’t think your paltry wealth can save you from my vengeance, my unquenchable wrath!”

Batman fell silent waiting for some response from his adversary. He clenched his teeth creating a grinding sound that was audible three stories up. Bruce Wayne considered all of his options almost simultaneously; he evaluated the situation with the precision of a cold blooded professional. Taking note of every possible angle, every weapon, every contingency was accounted for. Batman tensed himself to spring into action if Iron man made the slightest motion, the most minute gesture. He would not be taken unawares. That was Batman’s greatest strength, to be prepared for the expected and the unexpected taking into account human strengths and weaknesses but moreover the unpredictability of his adversary’s imaginative human mind.

However Iron man remained as still and silent as if he were a marble, Central Park statue. He stood in the street between the buildings where he had landed. His faceplate focusing on Batman’s perch above the marquee of the Gotham theater. There wasn’t so much as a flicker of light from within Iron man’s helmet. It was as lifeless and as dark as the midnight sky and the depths of Batman’s soul.

Finally Bruce Wayne had had enough. Enough waiting. Enough Planning. Enough of Iron man and his self righteous acts. It was time to silence Tony Stark and dump what was left of Iron man in the Gotham salvage yards. Batman suddenly sprung into action. There was a dark blur of motion, then Batman seemed to materialize above Iron man. With a quick jerk of his wrist, Batman placed five small magnetic charges around Iron man’s neck at the weakest point of his armor. Batman had only just managed to leap away as the devices exploded sending Iron man’s helmet arcing away, leaving a smoking hole where Tony Stark’s head should have been.
As he landed on the street Batman noticed, too late that the real Iron man stood only a few paces away with his arms outstretched, weapons fully charged. Bruce Wayne could only grimace as the array of armor piercing micro missiles and repulsor beams passed through his body. With every vital organ fatally shredded, Batman helplessly watched as Iron man slowly approached.

“Bruce. I’m sorry. What you couldn’t realize was that you never really had a chance. I felt I owed you the first shot but you blew it. Now it’s my turn.”

[Baradakas]

Nobody said anything about a battle where each man sneaks into the other's bedroom while he sleeps and offs him with an ordinary butter knife.

But thats the point. Nobody said there were rules of engagement here. Bruce Wayne, if he even shared the same reality as Stark, and somehow thought he needed killing, would NEVER be so stupid to attack him head on. He would create situations where Tony would never know he was even considered an enemy! Bruce is simply too smart to take on a walking talking A-bomb head to head.

Bruce would win because he lacks the moral restrictions necessary to most heroes... and because, as it has already been stated, he feels that the end would justify the means.

I don't argue that Tony has the more amazing powers, suit and all that. But even if Bats decided he had to kill Stark, he would surely either, a) steal or create plans for a more powerful prototype than Stark was currently using, or b) find a death star-type weakness to take Stark out. HE WOULD EVEN THE ODDS.

And please don't try to tell me Stark's suit has no weaknesses. It is a machine, and all machines are dependent on moving parts, power sources, and locomotion of said parts. Just the nature of physics. And since Bruce is super-rich too, he COULD FIND A WAY.

And if the writers have managed to make his suit that way over the years, well, thats just lame. Nothing worse than an invincible hero. (Which is why I got fed up with Superman years ago, and Lobo as well, though that took longer )

Didnt mean for this to read so ranty, but geez, one super-suit just can't account for all the possibilities that could exist here.

-B

[aTOMiC]

Nothing worse than an invincible hero.

Do you even know what the title of shellhead's book is?

The problem with all of your comments is that you seem to think Tony Stark is some kind of white bread chewing saint. To my absolute horror there have been times during the course of the Iron man story that the writers decided "Hey you know what Tony Stark needs to be? A GIGANTIC BUTTHOLE!"
Let's have him murder some of his best friends. Yeah that'll be awesome. Let's make him head up a Nazi like registration initiative that will alienate him from his closest allies. Yeah that would be sweet! Let's have him go out and murder anyone that might have gotten hold of his technology without his express written permission. Yeah that would kick ass!

All of these things and more have made me dislike some of the writing teams that have handled both Iron man and Avengers titles. Why? Because I want my guy to be a good guy through and though. But he isn't. He's now head of S.H.I.E.L.D. which makes him even more black opps and sinister than being the head of the CIA. PLUS!!!!!!! Whether any of us like it or not today's Iron man has Extremis going for him. It doesn't matter if he's wearing his armor or not. He's super powered with a quick healing factor similar to Wolverine. That is the Iron man/Tony Stark Batman has to deal with.
Here's another point I'm forced to make. If you say Batman will find a way to beat Iron man, I will just come back and say something like "Uh...Iron man would find a way to beat Batman...so there! Nyah Nyah, Nyah Nyah Nyah!

[I'm Murrin]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlLeCu63HCA

Not an epic battle, but amusing.

[aTOMiC]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlLeCu63HCA

Not an epic battle, but amusing.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHH!!!!!!

[High Lord Tolkien]

Remember, most of the previous incarnations of Iron Man had him crawling at the mercy of finding a power outlet where he could recharge his armor.
Hawkeye beat him once using a few rust arrows!
Of course today's Iron Man probably is proof against EMP's and has a limitless power supply channeled through a subspace rift in the Negative Zone.

And didn't Batman just beat Darkseid?