Kevin's Watch

Hi all... just ressurecting this particular thread because recently my family and I were doing our yearly watch of all three movies (the extended editions of course) and finally finished last night. My daughter noticed a huge blooper! or continuity error!...

In the scene where Aragorn leads the forces of Gondor and Rohan to the Black gate ... the entire army rides to the gate ... Aragorn and his companions ride up a little further and yell out challenged for Sauron to come out and face justice. The Mouth of Sauron comes out, taunts them, Aragorn chops his head off, and the huge army of Sauron comes out of the Black gate whereupon Aragorn and companions ride back to the rest of their army to face them --- a quick cut to Frodo and Sam --- back to the army and POOF! all the horses the army of Gondor and Rohan rode in on suddenly DISAPPEAR!
no horses anywhere to be seen!

LOL.... I never noticed in 5 watchings of the movie and my daughter points is out....
WT--!

(would have made sense to keep the horses .. much better advantage for combat ... hahaha!)

just thought I would share... (anyone else lotice this? i didn't...)

Not having bothered to watch much of this one (I've seen roughly 20-30 mins of it) I never noticed the glaring error with the horsemen. That kind of thing happens a lot in films, of course.

Nonetheless, I'm glad you resurrected this thread. I agree with the spirit of the first post in it (from the stuff I have seen from it, of course), and felt that way about the whole squalid trilogy. The post gave me a laugh, so thanks.

I've seen the dissapearance of the horses discussed on a number of boards-I did a big double take at the theater and quickly let it go.

I enjoyed all three movies. But then, I never expected them to be books. Just I never expect books to be movies. They are different things.

And it amused me that the original poster complained about a detail in which the film WAS faithful to the book! <g>

Zahir wrote: I enjoyed all three movies. But then, I never expected them to be books. Just I never expect books to be movies. They are different things.

I agree. I didn't enjoy them as films faithful or not, though.

Zahir wrote: And it amused me that the original poster complained about a detail in which the film WAS faithful to the book! <g>

Mmm. The Merry thing? That amused me too.

I watched all three over the weekend too. . . mostly on Sunday evening when they had a marathon on TNT. I noticed the horses missing this time too. . . but can't recall if I noticed that before. I have to say, I hated watching them with commercial interruption. I'll definitely have to watch the dvds soon.

Zahir wrote:I enjoyed all three movies. But then, I never expected them to be books. Just I never expect books to be movies. They are different things.

And it amused me that the original poster complained about a detail in which the film WAS faithful to the book! <g>

I totally agree. However I DID enjoy them as movies. Fellowship is my fave!

Yes, Fellowship (especially the Extended Edition) affects me the most. I suppose just seeing that world introduced, as well as the characters. That first battle in the prologue, with the camera swerving up as the two armies clashed: breathtaking, especially on the big screen. Gandalf the Grey (plus his "pity" speech in the Mines of Moria) sealed the deal.

I loved the films. They were great. Films are not supposed to be identical to the book. Films are a directors interpretation of a book. I like to see what people get from books and bring to films. I think Peter Jackson did a great job. I loved Fellowship the best and I think one of my favorite cinematic moments is the scene where the Nazgul is sniffing out the hobbits which are hiding below the road edge. I love the way it looks and sounds. Totally amazing.

oo both great moments from FotR... for me there are two:

- the Balrog as it rises from smoke and flame on to the bridge. Awe-inspiring and chilling.

- the death of Boramir... amazingly well done moment for a tragic hero.... there had to be twenty bodies around him as he took 3 ballistai to teh chest. Excellent job by Sean Bean .. i get chills every time he leaps into the fray to save Merry and Pippin!

Omissions are a sad necessity, but I sympathize with all of you who were burned by the changes in storyline.

My favorite line was the line they gave Sam in TTT in Osgiliath when he says, "By rights, Mr Frodo, we shouldn't even be here!" You're darn tootin' you ain't supposed to be there! Whatever possessed PJ to drag F+S back to Osgiliath is beyond me.

The changes ultimately not only annoy purists, but do actually detract from the story, even as films. People who think they can top Tolkien...just can't.

rusmeister wrote:Omissions are a sad necessity, but I sympathize with all of you who were burned by the changes in storyline.

My favorite line was the line they gave Sam in TTT in Osgiliath when he says, "By rights, Mr Frodo, we shouldn't even be here!" You're darn tootin' you ain't supposed to be there! Whatever possessed PJ to drag F+S back to Osgiliath is beyond me.

The changes ultimately not only annoy purists, but do actually detract from the story, even as films. People who think they can top Tolkien...just can't.

hmmm. i disagree with your notion about 'topping Tolkein' or changing a story in its translation to the screen. It's the age-old discussion about movies vs. books...
I am not a purist ... i take each as it's own. The part about bringing F&S to Osgiliath was a bold move to give Faramir's character more wieght in his decision to let F&S go ... debate as you will, but it certainly does not "detract" from the story told in the movie.

When I watched all three EEs end-to-end the first time, I came away thinking Fellowship was the best film. And I thought that because the Frodo/Aragorn/Boromir sub-story was done really well in the film, although it's not really as apparent in the TE.

I think half the non-canonical changes, at least, were improvements. Some were bad, but lets face it many were good. I liked in FOTR how they tied Aragorn to the ring legacy, and how they did a great job of making Frodo's departure in the Breaking more explicable. I liked how Aragorn had a character arc in TT, bring him from unwilling exile to leader of men. I liked how they brought out Frodo's ring influence, and tied it to Smeagol's redemption. I like how Pippin tricked Treebeard. I liked that they made more of Faramir, and yes, I like that he brought the ring to Osgiliath, and I liked why. I liked the Army of the Dead coming to Minas Tirith. I liked it that Frodo tried to get the ring from Gollum at the end. All these things made the movie better.

My Big Blunder List is:
- the Nazgul seeing the ring in Osgiliath

Some other things were off putting but didn't take the movie down with them. Gimli thinking that Moria was a palace; Merry knowing of Ents; Merry and Pippin seeing Gandalf the White before Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli did; the really bad way they explained the necessity of the Paths of the Dead; and the "scrubbing bubbles".

But these are prices I'd gladly pay again. Could you expect a better score for matching your expectations and surpassing them than the movie achieved? I don't think so.

again, well spoken.

I'm with you on a bunch of this wayfriend, and would like to nitpick a bit.

I wasn't pleased with Faramir's change. I like some of what they did with him, but I prefer the original. I felt the orcs were a little too monkeylike and beastial, and weren't exactly given the respect they deserved. Here and there, they did right by them, but a lot of the other time, no. The Moria orcs seemsed to work just fine though for the environment they were in. And speaking of Moria, I was irritated that it wasn't ancient history that Moria had been overrun. Especially now that they are making the Hobbit and a bridge film between the two. I would have loved to have seen what scared Gandalf so much when he travelled through there, and the dwarves trying to reclaim Moria (which I suppose they could still do).
There are a bunch of other little nitpicks as well, but they will get tedious.

On the flip side, I loved these films, and had quite the obsession going with them. I lived and breathed these films for 4 + years and followed all the spy reports, payed money to see the trailer and left the theater once the movie started, and a bunch of other silly things. They hit a lot of right notes throughout, and some of the changes were especially good. Aragorn very much came alive for me. I always liked him as Strider, but once they make it to Rivendell, I lose interest in him in the book. I also love how PJ and crew illuminated a lot of things that wasn't especially clear, like why they had to win Helms Deep, and how badly stacked the odds were against them through the whole story. What mainly came across in the book is how tired and hungry they were most of the time.

Still, with the nitpicks, if I want to do it the way I envision it, I need to make it again. But I know I won't 'cause I'm lazy. But I did write most of a Bored of the Rings screenplay taking some from the original book as well as spoofing the movie and the Lord of the Rings book. I would advertise having Tom Bombidil (or rather Tim Benzadrine) and the Scouring of the Shire (which would have been that nobody cleaned up after Bilbo's birthday party, so the returning hobbits would have to). Now that the Hobbit is ramping up, it might be time to finish it and think about shopping it around after all.

Yeah, the backstory for Moria was screwed up. And you're right, this could be a problem in the Hobbit, unless they just ignore it.

But I agree with the screenwriters on Faramir. If he hadn't coveted the One Ring, the whole story would be undermined. However, Faramir was goaded by his relationship with his father, and not, as Boromir and Denethor, out of a more direct lust for the Ring itself. So, in a way, he remains more noble than his brother and father. I think that's a fair compromise.

Trouble was, once Frodo was in Osgiliath, the writers came up with a doofus plan to get him out again. I hold those two aspects seperate; one good, the other woeful.

Yes, it was fun all those years reading spy reports on theOneRing.net and AintItCool, speculating on the casting choices, watching for pics and stuff. It'll be interesting to go back into that mode for The Hobbit.

I did it at tolkienmovies.com. There were some good people there, and I don't know if anybody there then is still around, but it will be nice to return, even though I didn't quite get along with EVERYBODY there, but I did enjoy more than anything finding out everything I could. Although I might finally sign up for TORN.

Yes, I too was a little disappointed with the Moria part, how they skipped over it's gradeur, etc. And I hated the notion that the orc skittered up walls and columns as if they were spiders .. a neat image, but not for orcs...

They hit a lot of right notes throughout, and some of the changes were especially good. Aragorn very much came alive for me. I always liked him as Strider, but once they make it to Rivendell, I lose interest in him in the book. I also love how PJ and crew illuminated a lot of things that wasn't especially clear, like why they had to win Helms Deep, and how badly stacked the odds were against them through the whole story.

totally agree!

My problem with the movies is the weakening of Frodo. The portrayal by Wood and the script remade him, which I expected to some degree, but he f*ing fled on Weathertop! Basically, they turned him into a victim. A whiny, weak victim. There were too many Frodo-emoting headshots. I understood the dilemma of showing Frodo's inner struggle with the Ring, but a more subtle approach would have worked within the rest of the movie's spectacle.

Gollum framing Sam was so transparent, even Movie-Frodo should have seen through it. Book-Frodo would have told Gollum it was about time Sam ate his share.

ItisWritten wrote: Gollum framing Sam was so transparent, even Movie-Frodo should have seen through it. Book-Frodo would have told Gollum it was about time Sam ate his share.

Yeah, I had a little trouble with that one too. It made a little sense to me, but I thought it was an especially bad addition, other than the look on Sam's face that made me really feel for him.

I may have stated this elsewhere, but I was especially bugged with the line from Frodo to Sam about Gollum where he asked, "Why are you always tearing him down?" Way too modern for my tastes, and always rubs me wrong. Like the "Kill the halflings!" line.