Where is God?

[Furls Fire]

Kins, my faith has not blinded me. My faith gives me strength and hope and deep inner joy. I trust the Lord's guidance and follow His plans for me. Does this make me foolish in your eyes?

I've listened to you call Jesus a terrorist, and God a "prick", and He does not need me to defend Him, but that is over the top for me. I know you do not believe as I do, and never will. But I do not belittle your nonbelief, so please, don't belittle my faith.

I do not twist my vision of the world to match the one the Bible wants me to see. I view the world thru the eyes and ears and senses God gave me. I see it as I have always seen it, even before I read the Bible I knew who Jesus was. No one told me who He was, I just knew Him. Does that make me foolish in your eyes?

And yes, I believe we have evolved, all the world has evolved, it can not stand still. Nature, in all God's glory, grows and changes, He made it that way. Why is it that if one believes one thing they cannot possibly believe the other? That makes no sense to me.

To me, God is everywhere...He is in the sky, the earth, the laughter of my children, my heart. His presence swells the walls of my house. And I've heard His Voice in my ear and I've seen His glory in my dreams. Does this make me foolish or insane in your eyes?

By all means, voice your opinion and belief, I respect it. But please, respect mine as well.

[safetyjedi]

Wow Furls! That was absolutely beautiful. You said exactly what was in my heart as well.

[Kinslaughterer]

Don't twist my words either. I didn't say god was a prick, I said perhaps he wasn't as nice I we think or portray him as was being stated in that point of the discussion.
I still firmly believe Jesus was a sort of 1st century guerilla fighter as can be noticed by historical texts and even in the Bible.

But I do not belittle your nonbelief, so please, don't belittle my faith.

I do not twist my vision of the world to match the one the Bible wants me to see. I view the world thru the eyes and ears and senses God gave me. I see it as I have always seen it, even before I read the Bible I knew who Jesus was. No one told me who He was, I just knew Him. Does that make me foolish in your eyes?

And yes, I believe we have evolved, all the world has evolved, it can not stand still. Nature, in all God's glory, grows and changes, He made it that way. Why is it that if one believes one thing they cannot possibly believe the other? That makes no sense to me.

To me, God is everywhere...He is in the sky, the earth, the laughter of my children, my heart. His presence swells the walls of my house. And I've heard His Voice in my ear and I've seen His glory in my dreams. Does this make me foolish or insane in your eyes?

By all means, voice your opinion and belief, I respect it. But please, respect mine as well.

That is exactly how I feel about faith even if it sounds belittling. I
ve never spoken out against god either. I don't know him/her or what they are like. I'm no atheist. I've never said god and science can't get along but since I defend evolution people assume or put words in my mouth.

All those wonderful things you speak of are there regardless of your belief. You are simply personifying them into something you want to be there and thats fine.
I've also never questioned what you personally believe, but I've voiced my opinion just as you have done above and in the past so don't reprimand me when you don't like what I have to say.

[safetyjedi]

Maybe the god of the Bible is just an lustful, angry, jealous, bigoted, inconsistent prick? Then the OT could still be divinely inspired...rimshot

[ChoChiyo]

Well as I said earlier, we are getting side tracked. As matters stand now, and will stand forever, there is no proof. So all this hypothetical questioning of "what if God" means nothing.

If there is no proof of existence, then it does not exist. Otherwise I could say i believe in the Toilet God; Who created all toilets at the beginning of time; and who is there to tell me any different? (I know its stupid, but I'm just giving an example) I mean no-one can actually disprove that the Toilet God - Crapevoh, is not somewhere watching over, or indeed, from under us, guiding our sins, or rather waste away, so what's it matter?

What I mean is this: By Catholics way of thinking, I could believe in anything, merely on the basis that no-one can disprove that belief.

Information on your "Toilet God."

here

heheheheeheh

Tracy, I love the God you believe in. I hope he comes to see me one day soon.

[Kinslaughterer]

Yes SJ, my point exactly perhaps that is how he is portrayed in the context of the argument. Don't try that old neocon trick of taking things out of context.

[safetyjedi]

You are right I was out of line with that. I apologize. I've never really considered myself a neocon before, don't really even know what that means. Please just realize that there are some statements, even in the context of an argument that those of us who have a personal relationship with God would find offensive. I should not have taken that line out of context.

[Kinslaughterer]

My point wasn't directed at god but the people who wrote about and defended their actions in his name. The OT is full of those things, that having been said I still do not believe in the Judeo-Christian god but that comment was firmly directed at his followers.

[CovenantJr]

All those wonderful things you speak of are there regardless of your belief. You are simply personifying them into something you want to be there and thats fine.

Excellently said!

[Dromond]

Agreed, excellently said.

Billions of people on this world do the good deeds that satisfy their heart.

Whatever one dedicates said acts to in not relevant to this discussion.

I can say the spaghetti god inspired me. If a life was made less painful and sad, so be it. Good.

But it proves nothing.
It does what I wanted. It makes a life a little less painful.

And points to the spaghetti god.

[Avatar]

According to the Bible, He was crucified the last time He did that.

Cruxifiction (sacrifice) is an integral part of the messianic concept. If you're not executed gruesomely to produce some benefit to your followers, it doesn't count. (And what have they to be grateful for then?)

--A

[Revan]

Kins, my faith has not blinded me. My faith gives me strength and hope and deep inner joy. I trust the Lord's guidance and follow His plans for me. Does this make me foolish in your eyes?

I've listened to you call Jesus a terrorist, and God a "prick", and He does not need me to defend Him, but that is over the top for me. I know you do not believe as I do, and never will. But I do not belittle your nonbelief, so please, don't belittle my faith.

I do not twist my vision of the world to match the one the Bible wants me to see. I view the world thru the eyes and ears and senses God gave me. I see it as I have always seen it, even before I read the Bible I knew who Jesus was. No one told me who He was, I just knew Him. Does that make me foolish in your eyes?

And yes, I believe we have evolved, all the world has evolved, it can not stand still. Nature, in all God's glory, grows and changes, He made it that way. Why is it that if one believes one thing they cannot possibly believe the other? That makes no sense to me.

To me, God is everywhere...He is in the sky, the earth, the laughter of my children, my heart. His presence swells the walls of my house. And I've heard His Voice in my ear and I've seen His glory in my dreams. Does this make me foolish or insane in your eyes?

By all means, voice your opinion and belief, I respect it. But please, respect mine as well.

It's as Kins said:

All those wonderful things you speak of are there regardless of your belief. You are simply personifying them into something you want to be there and thats fine.

The things you deem as "Gods presence" would be there even if you didn't believe in God. And the fact is God didn't cause them, all the things you listed can be explained logically.


For the record, I don't actually disbelieve in God, nor do I believe. I have no view points of what you would consider true or false regarding this topic. There is no proof of an existence of an omnipotent God, therefore he doesn't exist, that's a simple fact. Offer me proof to the contrary, then I won't disbelieve or belief either, because it would be fact. You can't argue with facts.

[ur-bane]

So then if a new Messiah did walk among us, there would be no benefit until he was killed? Interesting.

[Avatar]

Well, in terms of "religion" anyway, I think.

--A

[ur-bane]

You can't argue with facts.

No, I suppose you can't....but I am reminded here of one of my favorite lines from Men In Black:

1500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you "knew" that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow.

"Facts" change.

[Avatar]

Awesome quote, and a concept that I've often promoted. Knowledge is fluid.

--A

[[Syl]]

You're going to die a horrible death, remember. It's all good training, and you'll enjoy it more if you keep the facts in mind.
Take your dying with some seriousness, however. Laughing on the way to your execution it not generally understood by less advanced lifeforms, and they'll call you crazy

Bach, Illusions, the Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah

[Avatar]

That, (my favourite part of the handbook) is what I based my earlier comment on.

--A

[Revan]

1500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody "knew" that the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you "knew" that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow.

"Facts" change.

That why I said:

For the record, I don't actually disbelieve in God, nor do I believe. I have no view points of what you would consider true or false regarding this topic. There is no proof of an existence of an omnipotent God, therefore he doesn't exist, that's a simple fact. Offer me proof to the contrary, then I won't disbelieve or belief either, because it would be fact.

[CovenantJr]

There is no proof of an existence of an omnipotent God, therefore he doesn't exist, that's a simple fact.

There is no concrete proof that you exist either

Seriously, though - absence of proof For does not equate to proof Against.