Sunder- A Worthy Successor to H L Mhoram?/ Gov't of the Land

[iQuestor]

MrKABC said:

Not true IMHO - in High Lord Mhoram's time (and how many years did he have left to live anyway at the end of PTP?) the people of the land had health-sense and were capable of discerning evil. The thought of a Raver penetrating the Council would have been unbelievable at his time for that reason.

I agree - the New Lords had lore the Old Did not - the ability to meld minds together. Had Kevin's council had this ability, Foul's cover would have been blown early enough to let things get so out of hand that Kevin fell into despair.

With the New Lords, were a Raver even able to enter the council, likewise, his cover would be blown when this mindsharing were attempted.

[Kaos Arcanna]

MrKABC said:

Not true IMHO - in High Lord Mhoram's time (and how many years did he have left to live anyway at the end of PTP?) the people of the land had health-sense and were capable of discerning evil. The thought of a Raver penetrating the Council would have been unbelievable at his time for that reason.

I agree - the New Lords had lore the Old Did not - the ability to meld minds together. Had Kevin's council had this ability, Foul's cover would have been blown early enough to let things get so out of hand that Kevin fell into despair.

With the New Lords, were a Raver even able to enter the council, likewise, his cover would be blown when this mindsharing were attempted.

Ah, but was the mindsharing kept after Mhoram abandoned Kevin's Lore?

It was certainly abandoned at some point ... or else mutated into the Soothtell?

[Fist and Faith]

Also, the New Lords trusted each other completely. Mhoram was hiding something from the rest, and they all knew it. Yet they let him keep his secret, trusting that he'd tell them when he was able. A raver might have been able to take over a trusted Lord, and hide that secret from the rest with their permission.

[Avatar]

Yeah, it was still possible to be part of the "meld" and not reveal everything, although it had the drawback that you couldn't recieve strength from it, IIRC.

--A

[Fist and Faith]

YDRC

[iQuestor]

Also, the New Lords trusted each other completely. Mhoram was hiding something from the rest, and they all knew it. Yet they let him keep his secret, trusting that he'd tell them when he was able. A raver might have been able to take over a trusted Lord, and hide that secret from the rest with their permission.

F&F - good point. I hadn't thought of that.

[MrKABC]

Also, the New Lords trusted each other completely. Mhoram was hiding something from the rest, and they all knew it. Yet they let him keep his secret, trusting that he'd tell them when he was able. A raver might have been able to take over a trusted Lord, and hide that secret from the rest with their permission.

F&F - good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Didn't matter - a Raver was a presence of malice, and the Lords were attuned to detect malice. A Raver would not have been able to remain hidden, it's very nature would have been a red flag to the other Lords, even without a mind meld. Note that a Raver couldn't touch another person without a touch of acid, and it's violent hate would manifest itself around tools of Law and life.

[Avatar]

Hmm, I was thinking of Foul himself. I doubt the Raver entered the Clave until they were already pretty corrupt.

--A

[Fist and Faith]

Also, the New Lords trusted each other completely. Mhoram was hiding something from the rest, and they all knew it. Yet they let him keep his secret, trusting that he'd tell them when he was able. A raver might have been able to take over a trusted Lord, and hide that secret from the rest with their permission.

F&F - good point. I hadn't thought of that.

Didn't matter - a Raver was a presence of malice, and the Lords were attuned to detect malice. A Raver would not have been able to remain hidden, it's very nature would have been a red flag to the other Lords, even without a mind meld. Note that a Raver couldn't touch another person without a touch of acid, and it's violent hate would manifest itself around tools of Law and life.

We don't know exactly what the Lords could sense. Mhoram thought he was fighting "a supreme loremaster of the ur-viles" near Foul's Creche. It was only when samadhi touched him that he learned it was a Raver. He couldn't tell the difference between an ur-vile and a Raver. It's impossible for us to know how well a Raver can mask itself while inside its victim.

[A Gunslinger]

Also, the New Lords trusted each other completely. Mhoram was hiding something from the rest, and they all knew it. Yet they let him keep his secret, trusting that he'd tell them when he was able. A raver might have been able to take over a trusted Lord, and hide that secret from the rest with their permission.

F&F - good point. I hadn't thought of that.

I think that they were all afraid of ANY secret that Mhoram might feel compeeled to keep. They let him keep it out of respect, yes...but fear also.

[Kaos Arcanna]

Onto reading the Second Chronicles again, and there was another great Sunder-- and Memla-- scene that I had forgotten.

Memla decides to face the Grim alone so that Covenant and the Company will be spared.

Sunder tries frantically to break the grip of the Haruchai. "Release me! Do you not see she means to die?!"

With all the hatred and loathing Sunder must have had for Riders throughout his lifetime, he still was desperately trying to save one ...

And Memla herself ... so brave a woman.

And I don't think she even gets mentioned again after the first book.