Pantheon - Discussions on the Future

Post by **[Syl]** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:48 am

Menolly wrote:But the history and background of Eiran is too rich for me to willingly see it totally fade away...

History merely stands in the way of progress.

Post by **Xar** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:20 am

Thinking about Etzlicoatl and his dogma, I also came up with an idea as to how to ensure that even a player who wants to play a deity relishing the sacrifice of his own worshippers will not be at a disadvantage compared to a deity who encourages them to multiply...

As for number of worshippers, I thought about keeping that only as an internal value (i.e. something I would be keeping track of to calculate when to give you new Influence tokens, but which you would not see in turn reports). In that case, the only values you would know about other gods would be the number of influence tokens and the amount of raw divine power he or she has - and you could estimate how many followers he must have, but you wouldn't be sure. It would also make some sense, since it's hard to imagine a deity making a census of his or her followers every turn and then go, "oh look, I'm missing 130 people!"...

Post by **caamora** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:58 pm

History merely stands in the way of progress.

I agree, Syl.

Post by **Xar** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:08 pm

In another potentially controversial development, I think I'm not going to allow Manifestations in the world anymore... and at the same time, I'm going to add another way (other than annihilating all followers) to destroy a deity. I'm also considering how to treat physical domains as opposed to insubstantial ones (i.e. "forests" vs. "fear"), and what I think could be done would be that while a physical domain is more vulnerable than an insubstantial one, the deity with a physical domain may have a slight edge when it comes to growing his or her influence in the world, since his or her domain can be seen, touched, and it's much easier to imagine a deity anchored to a physical domain as being "present" in the world.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:51 pm

Syl wrote:
Menolly wrote:But the history and background of Eiran is too rich for me to willingly see it totally fade away...
History merely stands in the way of progress.

Oh please.

As Astavyastataa Kadna drilled in to cho's obtuse head towards the end of the Second Age, and I am sure you already know...

Much like the appreciation of Joy and Light is diminished without Suffering and Chaos to balance it out, there can be no progress without history on which to build.

(...what am I doing?
I really do know better than to engage in an argument with you...)

*nevermind*

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:15 pm

I'd say what the Pantheon games so far have taught us is that progress is severely stunted by people having the option to play the same characters over and over.

Post by **Avatar** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:47 pm

Agreed.

--A

Post by **[Syl]** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:57 pm

I'm not so opposed to that, assuming the playing fields are level. I just find constantly bumping into things from the past cumbersome. I really don't want to worry about Neph., the demon king, or even the planar beast any more. I want *new* problems to tear my hair out over.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:44 pm

Eary on in this current Pantheon game, my followers stumbled upon a book of Maeror's creed, and started a little sub-cult claiming Bel and Maeror were the same. My response to this was to have the book and all copies I found destroyed and the leaders of the sub-cult killed, in part as a sign of what I think of those kind of things popping up from previous games.

Post by **caamora** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:05 pm

I agree entirely that it would be nice to play with new issues than rehash the same obstacles over and over again. In this game, it seemed we were facing the World Breaker at a very early point.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:54 pm

I'd like fewer things that can literally destroy the world. Not sure we need any, in fact. There aren't things that can grow a world, are there? I've never heard of one.

Murrin wrote:I'd say what the Pantheon games so far have taught us is that progress is severely stunted by people having the option to play the same characters over and over.

Well if a game would last long enough to accomplish anything, I, for one, wouldn't have to. Between random events and other deities causing them trouble, the Bhaktis haven't been able to get their work accomplished. After three generations, things are actually getting to where I feel I've accomplished something. Sure, interference from random events and others is expected, and part of the game. So it takes longer than it would otherwise. Big deal. Deities need to have some patience, eh? What god worth his salt can't deal with some setbacks? But when the game keeps ending in only a few years, Eiran time, the patience of a being with potentially limitless lifespan doesn't mean squat. So I have to come back and continue things.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:12 pm

I can understand that. They have been pretty brief so far. I hope the system Xar's setting up for the next one will help.

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:23 pm

Agree with too.

--A

Post by **Creator** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:04 pm

It would also be helpful to have at least weekly updates of move processing progress ... perhaps 10%, 20%, 50% ... etc.

If moves always done on a set time period *say within 2 weeks* then there is no need. However, real life often intercedes. What is frustrating for me (but perhaps no others) is not the wait ... it's not knowing whether results are imminent or 2 weeks away.

Post by **Xar** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:30 pm

Creator wrote:It would also be helpful to have at least weekly updates of move processing progress ... perhaps 10%, 20%, 50% ... etc.

If moves always done on a set time period *say within 2 weeks* then there is no need. However, real life often intercedes. What is frustrating for me (but perhaps no others) is not the wait ... it's not knowing whether results are imminent or 2 weeks away.

Yes, but even if there were, say, a progress bar indicating how much of the turn is done (and in the case of differential turns like described for a possible P4, that would make it at least four separate progress bars)... it wouldn't be automatically updated, I would have to do that by hand; at that point, it's easier to simply state "by the way, turn looks like it will be released in a few days" than to say "80% progress is complete" - especially because if I do the latter and then something unexpected happens and I can't access the computer for a few days, you'll be left wondering what the heck happened and why am I taking so long to process the remaining 20%

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:29 pm

All I ask is for the AllFather to sign on once a week or so and say something like, "I've been able to process a few turns a night this week; things are progressing smoothly." Or, "All hell has broken loose around here, looks like processing will have to take a back seat for now."

Even if you can't give us an idea of when you will return to processing, if you could inform us once a week that it looks like you won't be able to do any, we can all understand that. It really is the not knowing if something is going to come out in the next few days or not that drives me to suffer withdrawal DTs, at least...

Post by **Dorian** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:20 pm

I think, considering that Xar takes time out of his day to do this, and that he does the most amount of work out of all of us, that it would be a bit rude to ask any such thing of him. Sure, I don't like the wait more than anyone else, but he doesn't have to supply us with anything and is entitled to his own life and personal time as much as any of us. Why don't we just allow him to spend that as he wishes. If he decides to spend that spare time informing us of his progress then its a win win. If not, I'm sure we can all cope.

Post by **Creator** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:37 pm

Dorian wrote:I think, considering that Xar takes time out of his day to do this, and that he does the most amount of work out of all of us, that it would be a bit rude to ask any such thing of him. Sure, I don't like the wait more than anyone else, but he doesn't have to supply us with anything and is entitled to his own life and personal time as much as any of us. Why don't we just allow him to spend that as he wishes. If he decides to spend that spare time informing us of his progress then its a win win. If not, I'm sure we can all cope.

Hmmmmm ... while I acknowledge that it is Xar's choice I disagree that making the suggestion is rude. The game has many rules; including deadlines for turn submission. It is reasonable for players to want to know when results would come in. Now, as Xar posted, it is somewhat complex to give a % completion post (notice he didn't mention that he saw that desire as unreasonable or rude.) Menolly offered a reasonable alternative.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:24 am

The problem as I see it, Dorian, is the long silences.
This has happened in previous versions of the game.

If you look back in the comments thread, you will see several players even posted they thought the game was "dead in the water," "I've forgotten what I was doing," or perhaps even over and maybe it was time for P4 (not yet, please!).

Just a weekly, "hey, I know you guys are waiting but things have come up. I will get to it as soon as I can though," would be appreciated by me. But to go months on end with silence...

I have never posted that I thought the game was dead. But the silences with nothing is hard.
At least for me.

And ask.
Especially Fist.
You are preaching to the choir.
I have constantly said Xar deserves his down time in the past.
Many times.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Pantheon - Discussions on the Future