What Do You Think Today?

[Skyweir]

Its all good ...

Id love to say that but its really not I admittedly have become way too invested in the US gun control debate .. my son tells me this almost constantly and now Im in Adelaide my sister tells me this. And I get it, not my problem. But then I look at the heartbreak of the Sandy Hook shootings and ALL the others .. and I cant even imagine the pain of losing a child, a wee bairn that hasnt even lived .. and I cant turn away. I cant.

I get the practical drive .. self defence ... I dont get the social divide, in particular the pro gun drive.
.. and its not that I dont try .. I do. I am grateful not to live in a SA or US .. my views might be very different if I lived with that level of violence.

I know Av . Youve said if you could make all firearms inoperative, you would. And that gun control is useless as criminals dont care. But these shooters accessed their firearms legally. Law abiding citizens all obey the law, comply with statutes until they dont. Criminals arent born crims .. and the majority of shooters have been average humans .. that havent hit anyones radar till theyve gone off on their killing sprees.

[Avatar]

Sure, but if they hadn't been able to access them legally (and many of them don't, or at least shouldn't have been able to) then they'd either use something else, or access them illegally.

(Z, I promise it wasn't your participation. It was just the politicisation of the discussion. Feel free to participate from a non-political perspective. (Which the debate everywhere could do with I think.) )

--A

[peter]

Just one observation Z; American or British - or anything else come to that - it is deeply upsetting to keep hearing on our news about this continual 'slaughter of the innocents' that is occuring in your country every time some loon gets hold of a gun and bumps it up into an auto. This is not political - it's simply human. My apologies if this offends - but I think as humans it is our responsibility to keep 'sticking our noses in' again and again until those who can do something about it - and that's you, the American people - do!

[Avatar]

I just don't think the solution lies where people seem to think. Hell, I actually think Trump's suggestion would be a good and practical one.

--A

[Skyweir]

Cant agree with you at all on that .. IF youre talking about arming teachers.

That suggestion has not been well thought through... at all

There are a number of logistical issues. First for 1st responders. They will attend with two sole purposes 1 Disarm the shooter or shooters OR 2 Eliminate the threat. Now theres not one or possibly two shooters there are multiple armed shooters. This only serves to escalate the problem for responders and civilian bystanders. The potential for escalated collateral fatalities is huge.

Second ok arm teachers .. presumably they must keep their weapons stored in an appropriate weapons locker or safe. Logistically how many minutes from their weapons are teachers ..

These things dont run smoothly .. theres mayhem, high emotions and panick .. in scenarios like these response times are slowed ..

Third ok so you say teachers will carry their weapons on them throughout the day. Presumably they will be stored after hours appropriately in a weapons safe or locker. Tbh a target as prepared as Cruz would target the school at the beginning of the day, prior to the teachers arming . to remove the obstacle they would otherwise present him.

Ok so during the day they are armed .. great .. what could possibly go wrong .. lets think ... mmm ... everyone knows they are armed even if they have their weapon discreetly concealed. Suddenly a weapon is accessible in every class room.

If you armed teachers despite all this .. then they would need more than weapons training, theyd need incident response training .. and theyd better be paid a generous stipend that reflects there unique roles as teachers and not just armed guards .. but incident responders as well.

Its ridiculous Im most humble and considered opinion.

Teachers dont even get paid enough now to cover materials and out of pocket expenses .. mmm .. interesting times.

[peter]

Have to agree Sky; the idea - the thought of it just leaves me

(Sorry Av. )

Meanwhile, returning to domestic issues, I speak to many people in the shop - sell many papers to them - and am amazed by the number who, having been ardent Brexit supporters have no interest now in the negotiations whatsoever. Many complain bitterly, " Oh, I wish they would stop going on about Brexit - I'm fed up to the back teeth with it!"

Allow me to give the answer that if my position were different, they would receive accompanied by a good shot of my most withering scorn! "Oh, so you voted for something that you had no idea what it was actually going to be like and that future generations were going to have to bear the cost of - and now it's actually happening your transient fervour has evaporated and you have no interest in the fruits of your actions," (or words to that effect).

But just so as I can say I called it first, here's what is going to happen as a result of the referendum result and the subsequent negotiations. There are two possible outcomes;

Firstly, we might finish up with 'Brino' - that is Brexit in name only; that is closely aligned with the EU in a manner that effectively means wears still EU members, but with no say in any rules made or no vote in effecting change. A vassal state that renders the whole miserable affair a meaningless waste of time that puts us back a decade, leaves us worse of than we were before and diverts our precious attention and resources away from areas of deep import such as health, housing and education.

Secondly we might finish up with the 'walking close to the cliff-edge, but not quite going over' scenario: here, we have sacrificed any of the benefits that we enjoyed as EU members, but, as a result of domestic necessity such as the Irish boarder question, have just enough limitations to our freedom to negotiate trade deals etc, that we cannot enjoy the freedom of unfettered action that Brexit in its pure form was supposed to deliver.

Neither scenario is good - but mark my words, one of them is coming.

[peter]

In a rare example of solidarity apparently Jewish and Muslim communities in Iceland are united in their opposition to a proposed ban on circumcision except for medical reasons which is being considered in parliament. The practice is seen by some as akin to that of female genital mutilation and should, they say, be brought into line with that by being made illegal.


Some thirty passengers were injured in a mass brawl which took place aboard the liner Carnival Legend as it cruised the South Pacific. Centered on the activities of one extended family who kept on getting into fights, the passengers cheered and clapped as the offending pugilists were led ashore at a port to which the ship made an emergency detour. Apparently "drink had been taken".

[Skyweir]

Sure .. keep the foreskin.. but its not really the same if female genital mutilation .. but ok.

Yeah I saw the Carnival cruise ship story .. some people are just utter tools.

[Avatar]

Haha, we should probably just let this go. But...

Second ok arm teachers .. presumably they must keep their weapons stored in an appropriate weapons locker or safe. Logistically how many minutes from their weapons are teachers?

Took the cops around 10 minutes to arrive at the school, in which time he shot 17 people.

Yes, on-body carry, yes training in all that stuff, yes paid for by the state.

It may be horrifying to contemplate, but if I had a kid in school, and something like that happened, I would prefer somebody on the scene had the training and equipment to do something about it other than lock doors, tell kids to hide under their desks and hope like hell somebody else is the victim.

(Heads up...school desks, doors and interior walls (in the US) won't stop an AR-15 round. Hell, most of them won't stop a 9mm round.)

Anyway.



--A

[peter]

Yeah I saw the Carnival cruise ship story .. some people are just utter tools.

Yes - I always said that rather than choosing to use me as an Instrument, God chose to make me a tool instead!

Meanwhile in the UK the media fuelled story of Jeremy Corbyn's alleged 'spying' activities back in the 1980's gathers pace with the posting of a tweet by Conservative MP ben Buckley that Corbyn "sold secrets" to the communist east. Categorically denied by Labour and generally pooh-poohed by all commentators, Buckley was forced to retract the claim and pay an undisclosed sum to charities of Corbyn's choice in recompense - actions he took with an alacrity that would tend to belie his actual belief in the claims from the start.
I am reminded of the American Presidential candidate who, when showed a series of damning allegations about his chief rival that were to be circulated to the media by his campaign managers, questioned, "But none of these are true!"
"That's not the point", came the response - "By the time he's done denying them the damage will have been done already."

This is politics of the lowest order and is reflective of the deep fear that the 'Golden Circle' have that Corbyn might actually pull it off and get to No.10

[Avatar]

I am reminded of the American Presidential candidate who, when showed a series of damning allegations about his chief rival that were to be circulated to the media by his campaign managers, questioned, "But none of these are true!"
"That's not the point", came the response - "By the time he's done denying them the damage will have been done already."

Humans are funny creatures...

--A

[Skyweir]

Hell yeah they are

As to the teachers thing lol .. ok carry on them at all times .. everyone knows they are carrying .. and now there are multiple firearms available across the school .

Did you just hear recently that a teacher baricaded himself in a classroom and shot off a round through a classroom window when the Principal knocked on the door and demanded the teacher open it ..

Teachers are not all calm, level headed individuals. They work with kids! It is stressful at times and .. well .. still not the most ideal situation - and imho not a solution. AT ALL

The answer however is very simple .. and it is a matter of adding 2 and 2. .. but things are moving slowly .. but they are moving ..

Even Cadet Bone Spurs seems to be steering things in the right direction. time will tell eh?

[peter]

Google gives me info on my tablet concerning local traffic conditions and expected journey times. Mostly it's pretty good, but yesterday the limit of algorithms was reached; suffering snow blizzards and under red alert not to undertake car journeys in my locale it informed me "traffic lighter than usual and journey times faster".

[Avatar]

Well, traffic would be lighter, since everybody was staying home.

True enough Sky...not everybody should have one, and for those who do, training, training, training.

--A

[Skyweir]

You're dead right Av

You're a man of great wisdom .. I was with my nieces this weekend and one has just started Uni and were chatting about things she has to do (her first week in) and she started to stress a tad ... and I told her .. that if there's anything I've learned in my long years, its not to sweat the small stuff.

Yet we so often do.

[Kizza]

Hello all,
Today is a great day. Namely because it beats the crap out of the hangover I had two mornings ago! Don't often suffer from hangovers these days, as I usually don't brave more than two or three drinks, however I fell for the gluttonous beer, then wine and then whisky trap. Whisky after beer and wine is a trap. You think you are swilling peated delight from a seawater soaked barrel of the philosophers own source of satisfied gesticulation, when all that is developing is a seal to your own tortured doom. Why is it that my dear wife showed me little sympathy.

Peter - I have watched the Beast from the East through the television and feedback through social media from some family and it is something else. I bet you could find a whole lot of technology which doesn't appreciate the temperature. The google traffic thing was funny though. Did it mention the use of snow chains, ice skates, or snow ploughs or tardis?

America wants to arm their teachers? The quality of teacher will plummet. I can see Mr Bellend up the front of the classroom polishing his personalised Remington 44 Magnum semi auto pistol.....
The thought of the US as a country with fewer guns than it has now is a pipedream. There are backdrops there unique to themselves (ala LA 1992 where Rodney King was the catalyst). It is a country built on war and conflict, and rockets bursting in air, and the good and the strong and the bad and the weak. They need xray machines and more armed guards in schools..... AND Universities.

This land repatriation, reform or seizure or whatever they are calling it in South Africa has me looking on in shock, and surprise. I thought we'd seen this fail in Rhodesia and Zimbabwe already...? I would have thought this deserved a more subtle approach. They say you should start things the way you want them to end. This doesn't appear to be starting well.
Aaaaand I wont even start on the cricket.

[Avatar]

Yet we so often do.

So often.

America wants to arm their teachers? The quality of teacher will plummet. I can see Mr Bellend up the front of the classroom polishing his personalised Remington 44 Magnum semi auto pistol...

That's a bit stereo-typical, what? Plenty of low-key, responsible and even moderate firearm owners. Problem as usual is that it's the others who want and get all the attention.

This land repatriation, reform or seizure or whatever they are calling it in South Africa has me looking on in shock, and surprise. I thought we'd seen this fail in Rhodesia and Zimbabwe already...? I would have thought this deserved a more subtle approach. They say you should start things the way you want them to end. This doesn't appear to be starting well.

Well. At first glance I might agree, however I have hopes that it will end up being pretty subtle in the end.

For a start, all that's happening right now is a committee to examine the feasibility of amending the relevant section of the constitution.

Second, the caveats and conditions that the ruling party imposed itself on the process may actually prevent it from happening at all.

And finally, there are ways in which it could be done which would not have much negative impact at all. For example, the government owns a lot of land. One possible option would be for it to expropriate its own land.

Issue is that one of the more radical opposition parties has this as a major platform. Government is trying to get them on-side by actually doing something about it, and at the same time moderating their demands for radical land reform.

I'm not ready to run around screaming about the sky falling yet. But watching with interest because the implications are massive.

--A

[Skyweir]

Whoa!!!! That got deep fast!!! LOL

Dont get me wrong I love a d&m issue exploration... but wow Kizza apart FROM the cricket you covered off on a ton of stuff right there

Av .. for sure. Id be watching with interest too .. the implications are huge.

[Kizza]

Sky, Monday had me dropping hangovers, the weather, guns, and politics all at once. That was before morning tea! There was a full moon about.

Maybe I got too stereotypical with the gun polishing reference... Can I blame the tv and my imagination for that? Teachers with guns has got to be the last option..

And finally, there are ways in which it could be done which would not have much negative impact at all. For example, the government owns a lot of land. One possible option would be for it to expropriate its own land.

Av, That's positively encouraging. The press seems intent on pumping fear, uncertainty and dread (fud) on the subject. Considering how far things have changed and come in a lifetime there, it seems a longshot that it could turn so bad on such a critical point. I believe that indigenous people all over the world will be watching on for benchmarks too.

It feels like summer has gone in the south of Oz. While it is still warm to mildish, cool evening changes have started. Then the northerners in Qld are eyeing off the flood season.... I do love a full moon. AooooW!

Have a good day all!

[Skyweir]

Where do you hail from Kizza

Was in Adelaide last week .. still warm there. But Im in Melbs now and yeah much, much cooler. My hubbys in NSW and reports rain lol

Where we live summer turns off Feb 28 .. its very respectful like that lol but not so much in SA not a respecter of seasons at all