Lost Season 4-There Will Be Spoilers

Post by **Kil Tyme** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:58 pm

Yes, I will bet the house that she is not dead. I thought the same thing; to live on the island all that time, to be as carefull as she was, to have learned not to trust Ben. She should have known better and maybe she did, but perhaps miscalculated the killing of Carl; but Danielle is not dead. That would be too much wasting of a very important character of the island.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:28 pm

Yet another episode where very little ws done to advance the plot. Yes, it ws necessary to tell Michael's story, but it stuck out that there were only two very short parts in the main storyline bracketing the flashback.
Toward the end, with the way the scene seemed to be set up, I was expecting the captain of the ship to say "I know", but it turned out the reason the captain didn't respond straight away was because they were setting up to leave us hanging for another week.

However, the next five episodes (the last five of the season) are, IIRC, the ones that were finished after the writer's strike, and they are supposed to move things along (and wrap them up, to an extent) a little better for the end of the season. Here's hoping...
When season four first started, I was hoping that they'd take the future storyline to its conclusion ("We have to go back") before the season's end and pick up from the return to the island for season five; with the way the future lines have been given so little screen time, though, I'm not as sure that's going to happen, and I'm thinking we may have to drag on another season before that stuff all happens.

Post by **wayfriend** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:58 pm

Hey ... the biggest thing revealed in that episode is Mr. Friendly is apparently able to get on and off the island with ease and rapidity. If he can, who else can? Say "Ben"!

(Unless this was all before the sub was blown up.)

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:19 pm

I was wondering when that bit was set, too. Could have been somewhere in between the surgery and the sub getting blown up (Tom was at the surgery, and he appeared with Jack when Kate, Locke, and Sayid found the Barracks, but we didn't see anything of the Others' camp between those two bits, IIRC), but it doesn't seem like enough time would have passed for Michael off the island.

Post by **sgt.null** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:18 pm

this episode reminds me that i miss mr.friendly.

Post by **lurch** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:14 am

A few ghosts in this episode..Tom..Naomi,,Minkowski,,Libby,,all seen in reflection...recall of memories....The best was Libby's appearance in Mikes dream state at the hospital. She told him to stop or don't do this...a reference to his suicide attempts..How very surreal..

That whole scene was a classic surreal metaphor. Point of it was..If we could experience the freedom of the brain while conscious,, that we experience during sleep , in dreams..then maybe that freedom would allow us to create better futures for ourselves than the ones we create while parametered by our learned waking conscious.....Salvidor Dali kept a easel and paints next to his bed so he could capture on canvas what he experienced in dreams that much quicker and therefore honestly. Michael screamed in fear,,and hence him being his own worst saboteur. He lives in the darkness of self defeatism.

In a way,, this episode offered a clue.. as to what Smokie is...Cerberus is the easy metaphor,,but what of any man or woman is its Cerberus?..remember,, Cerberus actually was meant to keep souls in hades,,rather than keep them out.

Post by **Wyldewode** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:15 am

I am finally caught up on all episodes of LOST Season 4. I've been watching them on the episode viewer, and watching the Enhanced ones when they are available. And then I just read this entire thread! Whew!

So the burning question on my mind about the episode is this: the island will not allow Michael to kill himself? This shows the island's power extends beyond its physical proximity. It also makes me wonder if it was the island that prevented Jack from killing himself too (I originally thought it was the accident that distracted him). It also makes me wonder about Kate's release. What role did the island play in Kate's release from her charges? If she is in prison she will not be free to return to the island--and we see that the island is jealous of its own. Highly interesting!

Also a general questions. . . what do we know of the list of Benjamin Linus? I had to think about this when Juliet had dinner with Ben, and the subject of Ana Lucia being a possible addition to the list. Also it was interesting to finally see it stated on the show (by Ben) that he chose Juliet as his own. I found it interesting that Juliet told Jack that there would be a war. That seemed to be redundant, unless there is more that she knows about Ben and what is up his sleeve than she is letting on.

All in all, very interesting. I think I will have to watch the entire series over, but I have some other things I need to attend to first.

And by the way, it's good to read all of your thoughts on what is happening.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:18 pm

I don't think it's really the island that keeps Michael from killing himself. I think it's more like the laws of nature themselves. Time, specifically. That bit about the failed suicide reminded me a lot of Desmond's episode last season with the lady in the jewelry shop. The universe has a tendency to course correct, she said. Desmond couldn't change his fate. Neither could Charlie. If Michael was meant to die another way--meaning that crashing on the island in season one somehow altered his personal timeline--then that's what is keeping him from killing himself at this point.

And maybe that's why Jack said they all have to go back to the island.

Post by **[Syl]** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:34 pm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterhouse_five

In the ep before last, it was the book the woman on the ship who killed herself was reading upside-down (I have that paperback on my bookshelf, I believe). In this last ep, it was the answer to the quiz show Michael was watching.

Desmond and Minkowski were 'unstuck in time.' Combine fatalism, and this from the wikipedia link:

...he uses this fact to convey his message that because time is another dimension all three-dimensional slices as we know them exist simultaneously. Therefore, everyone is always alive and death is not a tragic event.

Helps explain Charlie, Jack's dad, perhaps Libby, etc.

The question is, is The Island is an alien zoo?

Post by **Cagliostro** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:55 pm

Y'know...I just remembered something that the producers had said, which is that Rousseau is supposed to get a flashback episode at some point either this season or next. I heard it maybe at the end of last season, if I remember correctly, so unless they scrapped that due to the writers strike, she's not dead. Unless they are doing something new with flashbacks of a dead person. I guess we'll see.

Post by **Wyldewode** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:53 pm

Let me pose this question: What does time itself (or destiny), the island, and Jacob (island personifications) have to do with one another?

I had a really great thought-provoking question last night as I lay down to go to sleep, but I forgot it. Maybe it will come back to me.

Post by **danlo** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:56 am

LOST was repeat?! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Post by **Wyldewode** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:24 am

No new episodes until April 24th.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:06 pm

Hmm. Is that because the remaining episodes are the ones completed after the strike? They needed some extra time?

Post by **Lorelei** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:32 pm

Murrin wrote:Hmm. Is that because the remaining episodes are the ones completed after the strike? They needed some extra time?

The first episode after the hiatus was made before the strike but TPTB thought that "Meet Kevin Johnson" was a better stopping point than the next episode. The remainder of the episodes aired in season 4 were made after the strike.

I miss my LOST but I did get seasons 1, 2 and 3 on DVD for me b-day last week so I can rewatch from the beginning.

Post by **wayfriend** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:39 pm

danlo wrote:LOST was repeat?! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Agreed.

Post by **lurch** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:48 pm

Wyldewode wrote:Let me pose this question: What does time itself (or destiny), the island, and Jacob (island personifications) have to do with one another?

I had a really great thought-provoking question last night as I lay down to go to sleep, but I forgot it. Maybe it will come back to me.

..If you want an understanding of season 4 and most likely,, the rest of LOST I suggest a read of Andre Breton's Arcanum 17. If you want an understanding of the first 3 seasons of LOST, then I suggest a read of Andre Breton's Nadja,,and Magnetic Field Lines and even his treatise on black humor.

Since you asking that level of question,,yes, you have to find where all three and the one you missed,,are explored. What do the 3 you mentioned have to do with one another? ..the answer is LOVE. Of course I am not speaking of teen age Love or If you Love me then I'll Love you Love either. The Mystery of LOVE,,as perhaps surfaced in the New Testatment..the depth and width of a LOVE that would sacrifice his only son as an example..Easy, i'm not getting religious here. I am just trying to get across the mysterys of Time, The Island, and Jacob and the Surreal metaphor of those and how they do indeed tie into each other.

From LOST I have surmised: The Island,, Bens Magic Box.. is the Imagination.

Time: is subjective,,there fore holds no Truth,,it exists but can be manipulated warped, distorted etc. So..as the great easter egg of season 3 had it.. only fools are enslaved by Time and Space. Love is a freedom from Time.Notice how Love was always involved when Time was warped for DEZ,, especially in the last episode with Penny. Freedom from learned parameters is what is required to gain access to ones Imagination and explore it unencumbered..freedom from the learned constraints of Time included.

Jacob: Jacob is a name of what is perceived differently by every one who looks upon him..Think of a mirror...we all see a reflection when we look into a mirror..but what we see is ourselves, individually..same with Jacob. Ben could see him but not hear him.. Locke couldn't see him but could hear him..Hurley actually saw two figures..(?)...This all works if one see these characters as representative of or metaphors for basic elements of Man..Hurley is humor,,Irony ( hence two figures)..Ben is deceit..Locke is blind faith..etc etc......Jacob is perhaps a Truth of themselves.. a Who Am I waiting to be discovered and accepted....just like a mirror almost is. Instead of fearing their Jacob..a Love is needed

What a human being discovers in their Imagination,, and sticks,,becomes,, Who I Am...what doesn't stick,, is discarded and we move on. Exploring our Imagination,,discovering our Potentials with Love..is how we build Who we are,,and again,, with Love,,we connect to the rest of humanity for the improvement of Humanity,, for Humanity realizing its greatest's
potentials.

Post by **danlo** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:56 am

WOOOHOOOO!!! Awesome looking FRESH trailers for LOST's return in 8 Days!!!

Post by **lurch** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:01 am

Here is a cut and paste job on the remaining season 4 of LOST

Thursday, April 24th, 2008: 10:01-11:00
Episode 4.9: "The Shape of Things to Come"
--Ben-Centric--
TENTATIVE -- POST PRODUCTION

Thursday, May 1st, 2008: 10:01-11:00
Episode 4.10: "Something Nice Back Home"
--Jack-Centric--
TENTATIVE -- FILMING

Thursday, May 8th, 2008: 10:01-11:00
Episode 4.11: "Cabin Fever" --Locke-Centric--
TENTATIVE -- PRE PRODUCTION

Thursday, May 15th, 2008: Season 4 Finale Pt 1: 10:01-11:00: Episode 4.12 :"No Place Like Home"

Thursday, May 29th, 2008: Season 4 Finale Pt 2 & Pt 3 "No Place Like Home"
Episode 13 and 14. Starting at 9:00 until 11:

Post by **ItisWritten** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:03 pm

Malik23 wrote:I don't think it's really the island that keeps Michael from killing himself. I think it's more like the laws of nature themselves. Time, specifically. That bit about the failed suicide reminded me a lot of Desmond's episode last season with the lady in the jewelry shop. The universe has a tendency to course correct, she said. Desmond couldn't change his fate. Neither could Charlie. If Michael was meant to die another way--meaning that crashing on the island in season one somehow altered his personal timeline--then that's what is keeping him from killing himself at this point.

And maybe that's why Jack said they all have to go back to the island.

If Michael is the man in the coffin (he is from NY, and he's been trying to kill himself), then perhaps Jack's reaction to Kevin Johnson's death is about the finalism of that death. Until that moment, the lie was just a lie. But suddenly, things can't be undone.

Does future Jack know that Michael is suicidal? If so, maybe his death meant more to Jack about the finality of leaving the island. If Michael can die, what does that mean for the island? More accurately, what does Jack think it means for the island?

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Lost Season 4-There Will Be Spoilers